Rate Our Plays (A hand between two 2+2 posters)

[fsuplayer]

Party NLHE $100 $2BB
Me and Cornell2005 are involved in the hand.
I have seen him at my table a few times, but irritatingly enough, have gotten no real reads on him yet. But I do respect that he is a 2+2 poster, so he probably knows his ass from his elbow on the tables.

I cant remember exactly the stack sizes, but i think he had me covered slightly.

I am EP2 or MP1 with A /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif and make it $8 total to go.
Folded to Cornell2005 and he reraises to $22 I believe.
With no strong reads, I am putting him on possibly JJ, but much more likely QQ in this posistion.
My thinking at the time was that he would not raise quite as high with AA, KK was also in the back of my mind, but I really thought QQ.

I call without loving it too much, but it is suited, so i wanted to see a flop. Should I have folded?

Flop: 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Well, I think on to the next one...but hang on, he checked?!?!
Thats fishy from a solid player on a flush draw board.
I check behing feeling very uneasy.

Turn: A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Yay!
If he did have KK or QQ he is mine!
But then he checks again /images/graemlins/confused.gif
Feeling he will not call a big bet here with his oddly played QQ or KK I check behind trying to induce a bluff on the river so I can take a little more of his money.
BTW In the back of my mind I still was a little uneasy about his betting pattern, and thought the possibility of a trap was still there.
I figured that was even more reason to check behind him.

River: A low flush card, maybe 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif
He bets out very small, $15 which again seems strange. I think about raising to $40 for a second, but then decide he could also maybe have something like AK /images/graemlins/club.gif and thats why he checked the turn (like Sklansky says).
I flat call and he flips A /images/graemlins/club.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gif and takes it down.
I am still not sure of my preflop call, but I def. think he left a lot of money in my stack which could have been his.

He is always up at most every table I see him at, so I have no doubt he is a solid, player and I am sure he will be cool with this post as I am interested what people think of both of our plays on every street. I'm sure we will both improve with the anaylsis of the others! /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Thanks in advance for the help,
FsuPlayer

[DrPublo]

[ QUOTE ]
but hang on, he checked?!?!

[/ QUOTE ]

Red alert! Red alert! Player makes a sizeable reraise preflop and then checks a raggedy flop. Diagnosis: Absolute monster, and he knows if he was ahead before he's still ahead now. Likely holdings are AA, KK or A /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif, and I estimate the following probabilities to each 50, 20, 30 respectively, because KK would be scared to give off a free card if an A falls. Be prepared to muck this one unless you catch a running heart draw or running Ks.

Turn: The A, and another check. Well this means you're likely tied at best, and most likely drawing dead. The check is fishy. I dont think I would check behind here, rather I would bet something in the neighborhood of what he's going to bet on the river (you dont expect him to check a 3rd street after reraising, do you?) and if he calls not pay off a single cent on the river, unless another A falls in which case we're likely tied.

River: Well now you're really screwed. The only plausible hand you have beat is KK, and I really dont think he would have played KK this way because KK doesnt want to give off a free card on a raggedy flop. Moreover, the $15 is begging: "Call me. I'm just a teeeeny value bet. Please call me." $15 to sometimes chop? I'd muck.

The Doc

[fsuplayer]

I agree with your anaylsis of his "begging to be called" river bet, but I beleive that the small chance he has KK or QQ or another AK here, getting 3-1 on the call, and finding out how a frequent Party $100 player plays, turns that fold into a call.
FsuPlayer
Also I have seen attempted traps with KK on a raggedy flop. this could have been one of those, except..."oh crap an ace fell! Ill check.
What? He check again? maybe he has QQ or JJ, ill bet a little on the end for value, if I get raised though I'm gone."

[DrPublo]

Could be, but your play isn't all that consistent with QQ or JJ (ie why are YOU not betting the flop if you have an overpair), so it's tough to say that he's putting you on QQ or JJ and wanting a call with his AK or KK.

In general, I don't like calling bets with the hope of chopping, since I find that when I think this way I'm usually rationalizing a poor call to myself.

I can see the argument for calling down though, but I think for $15 I'd pick my battles.

The Doc

[cornell2005]

thanks for posting, we should do this more often

ill go through what i was thinking on each street

on the flop, i figured you for a smart player based on a couple plays you made earlier vs others, so i decided not to min raise (well i dont min raise at all anymore basically vs anyone, but whatever) when you called, i figured you for QQ, AK, or a small chance of AQ and JJ.

on the flop, im not sure i like my play, but it worked out for the better. i dont think i thought through it enough, but here is what i thought. i hoped you were a poor player, and checked trying to induce some sort of bluff either one this street or the next.

i loved this card, not becuase it made me trips but i thought you would bluff at the pot here if you had QQ or bet at it if you had AK. i still thought you figured me for KK, and now that the ace dropped, even more so. so i checked, figuring i would get a bet back, then i could raise. if you had the AK, i would get called, and if you had the QQ, i wasnt getting any more money out of you anyway.

i was a bit surprised when you checked behind, as i thought both holdings would warrent some sort of bet. i now knew you wouldnt bluff at it if i checked, since you have checked behind twice now, so i vastly underbet the pot to look like a weak attempt to get value for my KK after the A turned. i figured if you had a QQ, it was a graet opportunity for you to come over the top and think i couldnt possibly call with my KK. if you had AK, i figured you would probably call, but hoped you were not good and would raise.

anyways, i think i should probably bet the flop here. it made KK alot less likely and AA or even AK more likely. since i put you on AK, checking ended up being the best play here, but im not convinced i should have done it.

i really tried to get you to have that firt reaction you had on the river, to see it has a buy attempt and reraise me. unfortunatly for me, your sense that it was a "please call me bet" won you over, and it was jsut a check.

btw, is your party name the same as this?
cya later

edit: oh yea, i think i woulda bet the turn if i were you. i woulda wanna get a bet in somewhere, and i think i would think that my opponent (me) would not check the river, whether he had it or not. so would be less costly to try to get my value here than the river.