AKs thoughts

[mantaray]

Ok, so in reviewing my poker tracker statistics, I'm noticing something strange. After 16,000 hands all the 'big hands' have +EV for me except AKS. Here's the partial list:

Hand BB / Hand
AA 2.71
AKs (0.22)
AKo 0.31
AQs 1.61
AQo 0.40

So, either I'm doing something horribly wrong or I'm just getting really bad flops. I've gotten this hand 50 times and won 36% of the time. I've pre flop raised 90% of the time.

So, if you guys will allow me, please let me elaborate on my understanding of how to play this hand.

Pre Flop:
Early position: Raise - either I get lots of callers and thus the implied odds with a nut flush or straight. I get very few limpers and have good big card value for TPTK.

Middle & Late position: Usually raise - if I only expect 4 or so players, then maybe call because there are too many to play against for big card value and too few for big implied odds.

Post Flop: Flop an A or K against a few players and get aggressive - try to check raise if it will eliminate others or bet / raise if I can't. With a flush or straight draw, Bet if I expect enough callers (>=3 ) to make the draw worthwhile. If I'm late position, and there are lots of callers, I can raise when drawing to the nuts. (ie no pair on board).

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
Middle & Late position: Usually raise - if I only expect 4 or so players, then maybe call because there are too many to play against for big card value and too few for big implied odds.


[/ QUOTE ]

read this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=mediumholdem&Number=36 7502&Forum=mediumholdem&Words=david%20sklansky&Mat ch=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=100&Old=1year&Main= 366382&Search=true#Post367502)

Don't worry about your AKs stats, your sample size is way too small. I'm up only 1.5BB with AKo after 20k hands but I'm still happy as hell each time I get them. Post specific hands that you think you may not have played well, people here will let you know what you're doing right and wrong.

[ggano]

Always raise with AKs. 99% of the time you have the best hand, so why not raise, reraise, cap?

[MicroBob]

"I've gotten this hand 50 times and won 36% of the time. I've pre flop raised 90% of the time."


this says it all.
50x is not a large enough sample size to know whether you are misplaying them.
additionally, you should probably be raising 100% of the time.

the fact that AKo isn't winning a whole lot either indicates to me that you MIGHT be misplaying them AFTER the flop (but again, the sample size is too small to be able to tell merely based on the stats).
raising before the flop puts you in postion to take the pot even if you don't hit, under the right conditions.
i am guessing you are either letting go of your AK too soon.....or taking it too far....maybe even a combo of the two problems (which i've been known to do)...

because you have an idea towards playing them more passively pre-flop (you already limp 10% of the time and are debating limping more) i would guess you might be too passive post-flop too....but this is only a guess.




"Post specific hands that you think you may not have played well, people here will let you know what you're doing right and wrong."


this is the best advice of all.
include AK hands that you either think you took too far OR you feel you might have let go too early.

and this is kind of a selfish request too....because i'm still feeling my way through the best way to play AK and AQ, etc when i miss the flop.

[MicroBob]

fwiw, my numbers

36k hands (with 8-10 players....i filtered out hands with shorter tables)

AKs - 126x, win%-50.8, BB/hd-1.00, PFR-94.44, WtSD-45.9, W$SD, 55.3
AKo - 322x, win%-49.7, BB/hd-0.74, PFR-94.4, WtSD 42.4, W$SD, 53.8

the lower PFR numbers stem from the days that i might limp UTG or CC a raise. reading these forums quickly helped get me out of those bad habits.

as i said, i'm still learning....especially so with these hands. i'm reasonably pleased with the BB/hd numbers, but the WtSD and W$SD numbers could be improved perhaps. not sure.
i think i used to take AK too far....now i think i have found the right way but maybe still hang onto it too long (especially with several players in the pot). and there have been a couple of hands where i overcompensated for this and let go too early.

somebody posted 5 hands a day or two ago, and 2 or 3 of them involved AK hands that didn't hit. i think i saved that thread for study at a future time (like now perhaps).


to make a long story short....the tougher part involving AK does NOT involve the PF-play (typically)....it involves the play after that, especially the 68% of the time you don't hit on the flop.