Did I slow down tooo much?

[Soggy Salmon]

Unfortunately, I did not have reads on these players. I was at two tables and the other was taking most of my attention. (After this hand I did, though. /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

<font color="green"> Okay, usually if someone bets into the flop when it was raised pre-flop by somebody else, it means they got something, at least top pair, right? I wasn't worried about top pair here obviously, and after my raise was just called, that's what I figured. </font>

Turn: (10 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

<font color="green"> This scared me, I admit. Here is somebody who cold-called two raises pre-flop and has bet into the raisers twice now. He has to have a set or at least two pair, right? </font>

River: (13 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

<font color="green"> Now UTG+1 wakes up. He must have picked up trip 4s. I almost folded here. But I called expecting to lose. </font>

Final Pot: 19 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 19 BB, between Hero, SB and UTG+1.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by Hero (19 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB shows Jd Qh (one pair, fours).
UTG+1 shows 7h Ac (two pair, sevens and fours).
Hero shows Kc Ks (two pair, kings and fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 19 BB. </font>

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

<font color="green"> Without reads on these guys though, would you have slowed down at all? Should I have raised again on the turn? Should I have folded the river?</font>

[namknils]

I think you already realize that you slowed down too much. I at least raise the turn and see what happens from there.

At least you didn't fold. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[thrillhouse]

I think you did slow down a little too much. If you would have raised on the turn, you would know where you were at in the hand. Because of the simple call you have no idea where you are at.
-Thrillho

[SoCalPat]

Raise the turn. If the SB really had something, he would've likely gone for a check-raise on the turn himself. His betting out says to me he has nothing more than top pair, or an overpair smaller than yours.

[bisonbison]

Soggy, get a little dinosaur toy or something and put it next to your screen. Then repeat to yourself:

this is the only monster I see.
this is the only monster I see.
this is the only monster I see.

[CardCuda]

LOL - Bison your a genius! I'm cured!

[sin808]

follow the SB anywhere he goes /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Soggy Salmon]

[ QUOTE ]
Soggy, get a little dinosaur toy or something and put it next to your screen. Then repeat to yourself:

this is the only monster I see.
this is the only monster I see.
this is the only monster I see.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Like the guys on the Guinness ads: "BRILLIANT!"

[B Dids]

I think that on the low limits, people honestly don't pay attention to things like "I'm betting into the pre-flop raiser". They're thinking about their cards, not yours.

Often times I think there's also the dialog. "He raised pre-flop, he's jsut trying to push me around... OK I showed him, I didn't fold on the flop, I'll bet again to see if he's bluffing".

[MicroBob]

Often times I think there's also the dialog. "He raised pre-flop, he's jsut trying to push me around... OK I showed him, I didn't fold on the flop, I'll bet again to see if he's bluffing".

EXACTLY!!!
some people will always put you on AK if you bet out.

when you raise PF and then raise again on a rag-flop a lot of players who ARE trying to pay attention might be inclined to think 'he raised PF.....he can't possibly match that board'.


"Here is somebody who cold-called two raises pre-flop and has bet into the raisers twice now. He has to have a set or at least two pair, right?"


No. but you knew this already.
i think the fact that he CC'ed PF actually decreases the chances that he has some kind of 2-pair based on the board.



along with Bison's great No-Hidden-monsters advice....i try to operate on a philosophy of 'Everyone is a typical Party goof-ball until they prove otherwise.'

you probably have the best hand here so go for it....if someone stayed in through the PF raises and everything else with 43o then more power to them.

i raise the turn and just call on the river.
there is just not enough out there for you to consider folding the river imo. i would smell a 4 also....but you would still have to call it down.