How much to reraise with KK here in the SB?

[fsuplayer]

Party $100 NLHE $2 BB

No real reads on the pertinent players.
EP makes it $15 straight to go. LP calls.
EP and LP both have about $95, i have them slightly covered?
My read tells me maybe JJ or QQ from the EP and AK, AQ, or 88 99...although this is just based on the huge raise by the EP and the flat call by the LP, no real read.



What is your move here?

FsuPlayer

[HUSKER'66]

Don't know about others, but I'd think about smooth calling here. Your out of position (with a great hand I know), if the flop comes with you getting a piece, you can bet out the pot. If not you can check and see what play the other two have. If it is a horrible flop for you, due to your reads on the other players, you can stil get away from the hand. (hard to do I know but it happens)

Just my thoughts, maybe too weak tight.....I'd like to hear some others thought's.

Husker

[Ben]

I'd bet about $50 here.

[fsuplayer]

Just to clear up things a little (if they were ever not clear I mean)
There was a raise, and a call, its your action...
How much if any at all should you reraise here?

Please explain how much and why.
I am trying to max. my profits by not playing ABC on every hand. ABC (I think) here is to reraise all in.

Keep in mind that with my call the pot is $45.

I am interested in the idea that with AA and KK, you dont want to lose players with QQ, JJ or AK as they are drawing so thin it is +EV to let them think they are best and bet accordingly.

Thanks for the comments,
FsuPlayer

[Garland]

fsuplayer,

I wouldn't push all-in quite yet as you don't want to scare them away. Make it $45 to go with the intents of going all-in. If the player is alert, a mini-reraise to $30 will send alarm bells, so to cover myself, I generally reraise to 3x their raise or $45 with the intent of going all-in if the push preflop or on the flop if they simply call no matter what comes up.

Garland

[fsuplayer]

Garland-
I think you found the perfect $ amount to raise. It will prob. get out a hand like AQ, yet keep in a hand like JJ or QQ. It is also not a suspicious as a min raise.
You say move in after that reraise no matter the flop.
What if an ace falls?
Do you just push the rest in and prey?
I guess I prob. would and prey they called preflop with JJ or QQ and will still call.
BTW If I raised to $45 and get a caller, does anybody CR all in on a unscary flop? 7 3 2 rainbow for example.
If you check maybe a hand like JJ will move in when he wouldnt have if you did first.
Just a thought,
FsuPlayer

[Garland]

fsuplayer,

Yeah, once I get the $45 in, I'm pretty much pot committed for the rest of the $55...even after the flop with an A high board. The thing is some opponents don't know how to plan for the future, so they'll call a big reraise with AJ, A10, A9s, or worse and sometimes when they see the A high board and someone pushing their chips in they immediately think the other person has an A with a better kicker and make the mistake of folding. I'm not saying a lot of people make that mistake, but give that person a chance to make that mistake. I'd push myself rather than have to face the dilemma of calling a big bet. It's only one other opponent, and you can't assume the flop hit solidly for that person. If he has AK, AQ and hit and calls, so bet it...you still have some outs, but even if you don't, you have the perfect fish to collect from later on. Rebuy, make a player note and move on to the next hand!

Garland

[MS Sunshine]

I think you found the perfect $ amount to raise.

I also think $50 is a good bet to make it, but I couldn't fault a push here. You have a very good hand, but bad position. You wish to cut down the number of betting rounds where you are acting first. Both players have shown that they have a hand they like and you have $33 pot, which you need to protect. Raising to $50 and getting one caller if an Ace flops I still push along with any other flop even if both players call. Getting two players and an ace gives you no real chance and I would lean towards saving the remaining $50 in your stack even with a $150 pot.

It will prob. get out a hand like AQ, yet keep in a hand like JJ or QQ. It is also not a suspicious as a min raise. I would NEVER make a minimum raise in this spot. It gives them too much info, while at the same time not offering the pocket pairs a bad bet.
You say move in after that reraise no matter the flop.
What if an ace falls?
Do you just push the rest in and prey?
I guess I prob. would and preypray they called preflop with JJ or QQ and will still call.
BTW If I raised to $45 and get a caller, does anybody CR all in on a unscary flop? 7 3 2 rainbow for example. Why be tricky here? It's a big pot. Protect it and don't give the chance of a free card. Also you may not get the chance to CR, because anyone else that thinks they might have the best hand will push with the stack sizes compared to the pot size.
If you check maybe a hand like JJ will move in when he wouldnt have if you did first. If you bet your remaining money(about $50) into either a $150 pot with two players or $100 with one player they are getting 4-1 to call, or he is getting 3-1. They will be looking for reasons to call, not looking for reasons to fold. As to why you don't know anything about the players:

Get PT and only sit in games that are good. Notes are so important, with the auto note feature are pretty easy now.

MS Sunshine

[fsuplayer]

Thanks for all of the responses.
I wish I had a more exciting results to tell you, but I pushed in and took down the pot. The EP/MP raiser thought for about 10 sec and folded. Damn! That might mean he dumped QQ or JJ. LP folded quickly.
My thinking was that out of posistion I didnt want to reraise, get called and then have to act first if/when an ace flops.
I am always more paranoid when I am in the middle of the hand, but I figured taking a $33 pot right away is not so bad and some players still might call with dominated hands.

In summary, I think reraising to $50-55 is a better move here and then pushing on all but the worse flop (A Q Q might slow me down a bit however /images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Thanks for all of the responses!
FsuPlayer