Pat Tillman loses his life

[Clarkmeister]

Gives up millions of dollars in the NFL and leaves behind a newlywed wife to serve our country. He ends up sacrificing his life.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1788232

[B-Man]

[adios]

[ThaSaltCracka]

The NFL should do something with his legacy. There is much for pro athletes to learn from this mans short but magnificent life. Such a an unselfish man, I am also saddened by his death, as I am of all the young men and women who have died over there.

The good always die young..... /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[southerndog]

He is an American Hero. He is what is great about this country.

[iblucky4u2]

My condolences to his family and the rest of the families of those who die daily for the Bush "hOILy" war.
Here was someone that we can all respect. Someone who gave up the "American dream" to fight so others like us can pursue their dreams. If only there were more like him who would put their lives on the line. Unlike our politicos who are willing to put others in danger to keep their positions of power.

Rest in peace Mr. Tillman.

[Boris]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone who gave up the "American dream" to fight so others like us can pursue their dreams.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was not fighting so that we could pursue our dreams.

[Boris]

Why is he such a role model? What makes his death so much different from any other American that has died in this misguided war?

[iblucky4u2]

He wasn't in it for the $ - what do you think he was there for if not his sense of patriotism?

[ThaSaltCracka]

They way he lived his life both on and off the playing field and on and off the battlefield.
Boris, please don't try to politicize his death or that of any other soldiers.

[Josh W]

Boris -

He went over there for one simple reason. HE WANTED TO. He didn't enlist in the Army years ago because he had little direction. He didn't enlist hoping to get to see the world.

Many soldiers enlist because they want to serve their country. And, when they enlist, they don't know if they'll ever see conflict. Some hope they do, some hope they don't.

He enlisted KNOWING he'd see conflict. And he also knew that he had the ultimate life of luxury if he chose to not enlist.

How many soldiers go into the service in any given year, giving up millions of dollars, even more value in a family, and limitless possibily stateside to serve their country overseas? Please answer this question with a healthy estimate.

Every life lost is tragic. Uber tragic. I'm not trivializing that. In fact, I think that all may be equally tragic.

Some are just a little more selfless. Selflessness is a GREAT role-model-trait. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

Josh

[Oski]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Someone who gave up the "American dream" to fight so others like us can pursue their dreams.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was not fighting so that we could pursue our dreams.

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly do not agree with you. Freedom and the pursuit thereof, is not really an "us" and "them" concept. One who fights for freedom is fighting for all. The ideal is not finite, measurable, nor confined to a particular space.

One can argue the "fight" is misplaced and not doing much good, but then you would be making a political statement (as TSC asked you not do) which really is not what this is about. It is about one man making a choice to live up to his convictions and risk his life.

[Boris]

I apologize. I was mistaken in thinking that he was fighting in Iraq. I see know that he was in Afghanistan trying to hunt down Al-Qaeda remnants. A very worthwhile cause indeed. I thank him for that.

[Boris]

I am not sure that selflessness is a great role-model trait. I do agree that it was a great thing for Tillman to give up his NFL career to try and hunt down terrorists.

[HDPM]

[ QUOTE ]
Boris -

He went over there for one simple reason. HE WANTED TO. He didn't enlist in the Army years ago because he had little direction. He didn't enlist hoping to get to see the world....





Some are just a little more selfless. Selflessness is a GREAT role-model-trait. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

Josh

[/ QUOTE ]

I think these ideas are contradictory. I am not sure at all that selflessness is a good thing. Actually, I am fairly certain that it isn't. True, enlightened selfishness can be very good, and be mistaken for selflessness. Anyway, I don't want to criticize Tillman. I don't know his situation or all the things he took into account in making his decision. And I agree that his death is not something to politicize. I will just say that all of us should think of all the implications of the decision he made. He had responsibilities to his family and he chose to give up money and go do a riskier thing (ironic) than pro football. HYPOTHETICALLY, what if he went for very selfish reasons and hurt his family? HYPOTHETICALLY, what if his reasons were irrational? I cannot say it was a selfless decision, yet I am in no position to criticize it either. I hope all goes as well as possible for his family. He certainly stood up for what he believed in and paid a heavy price for it. Of such stuff heros and role models are often made.

[PuppetMaster]

which makes his death very sad. He might be the bravest and most courageous solider in the history of the United States.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
He had responsibilities to his family and he chose to give up money and go do a riskier thing (ironic) than pro football. HYPOTHETICALLY, what if he went for very selfish reasons and hurt his family? HYPOTHETICALLY, what if his reasons were irrational?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't want to speculate as to why he choose to enlist and fight, because I am not him and I certainly don't know what he was thinking. However after reading the article on MSN.com about his short life, I can't help but think he did this for the right reasons.
Lets look at the facts here. He had the potential to earn millions in the relative safe world of professional football. He was recently married and young. Instead he declined the offer to make millions and choose to enlist. What possible reasons could he have done this? Like I said he was recently married, he was just starting his family, and was young and rich.
According to the article(I am going to assume all the other ones out there are saying something similar), he decided to enlist(along with his brother) after 9/11, he wanted to served his country. He must have made this decision with his new wife and family, one would think. The article also said he did not want the press to cover him during his training or while he was in combat. he didn't want any special treatment because he was a professional athlete.
IMO, this was a guy who wanted to serve his country in the war on terrorism, and he died in that service. My heart swells with pride when I think about the sacrifice he made, along with the other soldiers who have lost their life in Afghanistan and Iraq. He is a role model to me, and if you don't think he is one, maybe you need to re-evaluate yours.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
I was mistaken in thinking that he was fighting in Iraq.

[/ QUOTE ]
What if he was???
I am sorry, but the soldiers of the U.S. military don't get to choose whether they are fighting a war they believe in or not. The fighting our troops are doing in Iraq is just as courageous as those in Afghanistan. Their deaths are just as sad.

[ QUOTE ]
I see know that he was in Afghanistan trying to hunt down Al-Qaeda remnants. A very worthwhile cause indeed. I thank him for that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Whether or not you like the war in Iraq, you should thank those troops as well for their bravery and patriotism. It sickens me to think that one of my cousins and friend in Iraq is thought of in the way you responded in your first post. Saying things like: [ QUOTE ]
What makes his death so much different from any other American that has died in this misguided war?

[/ QUOTE ] is practically like spitting on their graves.

[andyfox]

How does being very wealthy make his death any sadder than if he was not very wealthy?

[andyfox]

Mr. Tillman certainly did do what he believed in. This, to me, is not what is admirable about what he did. I don't care about somebody doing what they believe in, I care about what they believe in. Stalin and Mao, to name two extreme examples, did what they believed in. But what they believed in was horrific.

Nor is the fact that he, in particular, died significant to me. Over a hundred Americans and I don't know how many Iraqis have died in Iraq this month; I don't know what the figures are for Afghanistan. I don't think his life is more valuable than anyone else's.

Yet I do find something admirable about him. He was certainly courageous. He felt he was lucky to have been able to live in the country he lived in and he wanted to try to do what he could to prevent more 9/11s, to, as he put it, give something back. Not being much of an NFL fan, I frankly had never heard of him before today. While I do find it disappointing that we consider famous people more worthy than those who are not famous, this young man seemed to have character beyond what most of us possess.

Hopefully, this will focus attention on the fact that Afghanistan has almost been forgotten, despite the fact that it is deteriorating and we still have our military in harm's way there.

How lucky we are to be pontificating at our desks. He could have had that luxury too but chose otherwise, an almost infinitely more difficult path.

[krazyace5]

Lets see I join the military right out of high school, no job no money, maybe I can earn a college education paid for by uncle sam. I get thrown into the war and now fight for my country. I am courageous. I am a hero.

Now Pat Tilman is a millionaire with more millions on the way. Great pro football career, beautiful new wife. Life is good. Now he gives up millions to go fight for his country and his beliefs knowing he may die in war. Gives up his cushy life for a rough life in Afghanistan. He is courageous. He is a hero. How many people would do that if they were in his shoes? This is what makes him stand out and rightfully so imo.

Now I hope I don't come across as taking away from the average soldier here, I just think this guy should not be getting flak for getting air time "because he was a celebrity/pro football player". He deserves the recognition.

By the way, if he was doing this for the so called "wrong" reasons don't you think he would of gotten a safe non-combat job?

[andyfox]

I said he chose a much more difficult path than most any of us would have and had more character. And I also said that he was courageous.

I didn't say I think he was doing it for the "wrong" reasons. Apparently, he didn't want publicity, so I don't know how anyone could even think this.

[PuppetMaster]

[ QUOTE ]
Lets see I join the military right out of high school, no job no money, maybe I can earn a college education paid for by uncle sam. I get thrown into the war and now fight for my country. I am courageous. I am a hero.

Now Pat Tilman is a millionaire with more millions on the way. Great pro football career, beautiful new wife. Life is good. Now he gives up millions to go fight for his country and his beliefs knowing he may die in war. Gives up his cushy life for a rough life in Afghanistan. He is courageous. He is a hero. How many people would do that if they were in his shoes? This is what makes him stand out and rightfully so imo.

Now I hope I don't come across as taking away from the average soldier here, I just think this guy should not be getting flak for getting air time "because he was a celebrity/pro football player". He deserves the recognition.

By the way, if he was doing this for the so called "wrong" reasons don't you think he would of gotten a safe non-combat job?

[/ QUOTE ]
Pat had the dream life and gave it all up, this is the saddest story to come out of the War in Iraq. I think that it would be prety cool if a statue of Pat was erected somewhere in Washington as a symbol of his courage. This is a great american hero..

[andyfox]

"Pat had the dream life and gave it all up, this is the saddest story to come out of the War in Iraq."

He was indeed a courageous guy, but I'm not following why this is sadder than any other young man being killed (in Afghanistan, BTW, not in Iraq). He got a taste of the good life in the years before he enlisted and his family probably is secure financially.

[southerndog]

Nicely put Krazy....... Apparently some people on here can't appreciate an American hero for what it is. I really can't believe it. I guess we'll all have to wait for Boris and AndyFox to demonstrate what a true hero is.

I was in the military, I know what kind of people are in there. There are people that want to serve their country, and there are others that are in it to make a career. There is a mix of both. For me, Pat Tillman represents those that are there to fight for America.

Pat Tillman's death fills me with mixed feelings. It makes me proud, proud to come from a country that would create such a man. It makes me sad, sad that I know that I do not have the kind of courage and selflessness that he has. I feel the same way about him as I feel about those Firemen and policemen that went into the world trade center to save lives. The terrorists lost 20+ lives flying planes into buildings.... We had 500+ (I think ) firemen/policemen willing to die to save lives. That makes me proud and realize that we are the greatest nation in the world.

All this coming from a person who despises the war in Iraq, and HATES GWB. It doesn't mean I can't recognize courage and heroism.

[andyfox]

I just re-read my post. I said that I thought he was courageous; I said I thought he was admirable, that he wanted to prevent more 9/11s, that he wanted to give something back to a country he felt lucky to be living in. I said he had more character than any of us, that he chose a much more difficult path than those of us who are lucky to be sitting at our desks right now.

What makes you say that I don't appreciate what he did for what it was?

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not following why this is sadder than any other young man being killed (in Afghanistan, BTW, not in Iraq).

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, all the lives are equal. It's only sadder because we know more about him I think. A soldier from Albuquerque died in Iraq a couple of weeks ago. Very young and very sad too. The more we know about the soldiers lives who die the more connected we are to them I think.

[John Cole]

Andy,

The responses to your nicely written post show that some people aren't capable of following the progression of a few paragraphs, and I can see why you reread what you wrote.

In the future, please limit yourself to a few well chosen phrases.

[paland]

Is anyone here a war vet??? You all sound like you're pushing pencils back and forth. Well, put em back in your pocket protectors!

If you were in the military then you would know that many are there for the fight. Tillman played in the NFL and those people are a different breed. They live for violence.

Years ago, a friend of mine did two tours in Viet Nam. When he came back, he never adjusted to domestic life. He is now serving time in Arizona State Prison for quite a while. He busted too many heads at bars. Oh, he played College Football when he was 18-19. But it was his nature to fight and he went in after being drafted.

It's just in some peoples nature.

[PuppetMaster]

[ QUOTE ]
How does being very wealthy make his death any sadder than if he was not very wealthy?

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont see the other 700 guys getting airtime on
60 Minutes and parades.

[John Cole]

Are you old enough to post here?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I'd say this should give us even a greater appreciation of Ted Williams. We see in Tillman what Williams risked in two wars.

[PuppetMaster]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say this should give us even a greater appreciation of Ted Williams. We see in Tillman what Williams risked in two wars.

[/ QUOTE ]
From What I heard Ted Williams killed more Austrians in World War I then he hit homers that following season.

[DanS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd say this should give us even a greater appreciation of Ted Williams. We see in Tillman what Williams risked in two wars.

[/ QUOTE ]
From What I heard Ted Williams killed more Austrians in World War I then he hit homers that following season.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ted Williams was a Navy fighter pilot at 7 years old? Man, he's even more badass than I previously thought!

Dan

[Ulysses]

Another soldier.... (http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary_Navigation=Articles&Action=View_ Article&Content_ID=81655)

[Boris]

Im sorry but the fact of the matter is that war being fought in Iraq does not need to be fought. It is not a war for our American way of life or the freedom of Americans.

Pat Tillman died a commendable death. I wouldn't say it was sad. There was a job that had to be done and he did it.

What is truely sad is the loss of American lives in Iraq. it is so not necessary.

I have the utmost respect for those serving in the armed forces, especially the ones that have to do the actual fighting.