SnG Bankroll Excercise!! (ala OIC, for those who participated)

[ajizzle]

About 4 months ago, there was a month long tournament sponsored by a small Prima Poker website and formulated by 2+2's MikeHaven and jasonHoldem that got a lot of interest from the zoo forum. The concept was that each participant was given $50 by the website (they were trying to expand at the time), and by playing limit and following a specific bankroll rules, played until they built a $2000 bankroll, moving up limits as you bankroll grew. The concept was for low-limit players to gain experience playing at the mid-high limits, and to learn how to build from a limited roll. Though some people did bust the $50, many succeeded in making some progress up the ranks.

I thought of adapting this Bankroll excercise to one table tourneys, which, I think, are easier to beat in a limited amount of time than the limit games. The idea would be each person starts with $60 (10 buyins at Party's $5+1), and move up limits every time they have 10 buy-ins for the next level. ie

Play $5+1 when between $0-$110
$10+1 when between $110-$220
$20+2 when between $220-$330
$30+3 when between $330-$550
$50+5 when between $550-$1090
$100+9 when between $1090-$2150
$200+15 when between $2150 and up

If you ever drop below ten buyins for the level below, ie your bankroll is at $470 and you are playing $100+9, you must drop down to the appropriate bracket and move your way up.

Now, participants would have to put up the original $60 themselves, but I think this is a good way for beginners to move up levels and build a roll, as well as get experience at the different levels. Also, the results will be easy to keep track of, and the beatability of all the games will become more apparent.

Just an idea, but I thought if people are intersted, they could post on this thread, then post results daily. It will be easy to show results when dealing with SnG's, and people will be able to compare ROI at different levels.

If any are interested, please respond.

PS, I envisioned that this excercise would be done at PartyPoker, since we will then have a common ground to base the results off of. Also, I believe these games are easier to beat when dealing with this type of excercise.

Ajizzle

[Joseph]

[Spinning around like the Lost In Space robot]

Warning! Warning! Danger! Danger! Recessive Bankroll Strategy! Danger Will Robinson! Danger!

[FletchJr.]

I got 230$'s in my account. I'll try ur little challenge.
Actually its' a big challenge. that's why im going to try it /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
The problem is I like to play 3-4 games at once, so I guess I can buy into 1 20+2 but then I'll only have 210 so I'll have to buy into 2 10+1's. anyways that's how I'm gonna do it. wish me luck!

[lostinthought]

Great idea, these kinds of things are fun..

I am currently working on my own project of building up through the limits having an adequate bankroll.. I started with $150 a month ago,
and now I am currently at 5/10 holdem, and $100 nl sit and gos.. (and lower limits of stud and omaha)

For whoever is interested in that - I am blogging it here:

www.livejournal.com/users/510offsuit (http://www.livejournal.com/users/510offsuit)

So, I don't want to step down in my no limit sit and go's,

BUT

I have been interested in working on my pot limit holdem..
So, I will be doing this challenge with pot limit holdem party poker tourneys..

Good luck!!

[harrypalmer]

I want to make a reccomendation that this be done on another site as the rake on Party's $5 sit n goes is 20%. This is very costly, even if the extra $.50 doesn't seem like alot of money.

Harry

[ajizzle]

The rake at Party and also the structure of the games is often debated on this forum. The concesus seems to be that the games there are just SO much worse than anywhere else that the disadvantage of the rake and SnG structure can be more than overcome.

Ajizzle

[lostinthought]

Any winning tourney player should be able to get past the $5 threshold fairly quickly.. any difference in rake from that one level is not worth fussing over..

Your criticism would be more applicable if it were more of a
"Hey let's all play 100 or 200 sng's at the $5 level"
or
"Hey, move up when you have 50 buyins for the next level" (instead of 10)
type project..

[ctv1116]

I think that's a great idea. I'll probably start at the 10+1 level, simply because of rake and because that's my current level. I just need to get away from the shorthanded games, they've been quite lucrative.

[Losing all]

This is a very good idea. I'll start when I get back from tunica in a week. I hope this picks up some steam/interest and isn't dead by then.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I might be interested, but not at Party. I'd rather do it at UB or 'Stars where both the rake at the $5 level is half that of Party, and the starting stack/blind structure is more favorable to skill.

[ShaneSpear]

I've always felt that a move up to the next level of buy-in should only be done based on your confidence in your skill, not based on your bankroll. I think of it like baseball players moving from like rookie ball to single A to AA, etc.

[ajizzle]

On second thought, that sounds just fine. Assuming you have an equal out there who will also participate, it will be interesting to compare how many SnG's it will take you to move up, as compared to someone at Party.

Good Luck

Ajizzle

[William Wilson]

I'll do it, but with two modifications.

Since my bankroll in life is limited, I'm going to move up when I have 20 buy-ins, at least at first.

Also, I'm doing it at Stars.

Does this miss the point? If it does, I'll refrain from following up and will use your idea privately. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[FletchJr.]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this miss the point?

[/ QUOTE ]
No it just means ur a wimp. lol /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[William Wilson]

Uhhh ... who is Will Robinson? After a few searches it seems he's a code word for something. Would somebody mind a brief explination, or provide a link for one?

Thanks in advance.

[jasonHoldEm]

Hiya,

A couple things...The OIC was mike's creation, I just helped with some organizational stuff for the most part.

I also wanted to add some words of caution to those who might be short on expereince or cash. The idea behind the OIC was to gain experience/confidence/etc while putting a "theoretically" small sum of money at risk (i.e. $60 in your example). Sometimes people get so caught up in the hype they stop thinking clearly and will end up putting themselves in situations where they don't have the best of it because of the way the challenge is structured.

So one of the "rules" of the OIC has always been to quit when you start to feel like are in trouble, etc. If you parlay that $60 into a grand it's still a grand, so don't waste it banging your head against the wall at the $100 buy-in's if you "know" there is no way for you to beat them. I hope that makes sense...we had some people crash and burn when they hit the 5/10 or 10/20 levels of the OIC and it was very disappointing to see them lose a lot of money.

Also realize that 10 buy-ins isn't a bankroll...this is challenge and not a "safe" contest, your risk of going broke will be very high, especially if you fail to drop down at the appropriate times.

Anyways...with my disclaimers out of the way I think it's a pretty cool idea you have here and I might even participate myself, as I have been wanting to get back into playing SNG's. If I do particpate I'd be doing it at stars because I can't stand the format at Party.

Have fun, play safe,
Jason

[FletchJr.]

Just a little update for you all out there.
Today i played in my first 2 50+5's. i won one of them and lost a huge pot which i was favored. There's still lots of action at the 50+5s' and when u get to them everyone starts with 1000 chips instead of 800. I've played over 30 sng's going up the limits and had to drop levels 6 different times. but im still going by the code. it will be interesting to see how i make out. goin to the gym now, will play lots more tonite.

[ajizzle]

Great work Fletch. I think the main point of this excercise is to show the people hemming and hawing at the $10+1 level that all of the levels are very beatable for a good player. Especially those who read these forums consistantly. There is so much info here that the worst players can show huge improvements in their game from just reading.

Keep us updated.

As for myself, I am still at the $30+3 level. I haven't had that much time to play, but I have been running good. It only took me 15 at the $5+1 level, 12 at the $10+1 level, and 21 at the $20+1 level. DOn't have time to figure the ROI, but i can do that later.

Also, thanks to Jason for the input. I think your words really put everything in perspective for me and everyone else.

Good Luck All.

Ajizzle

[ajizzle]

When we did the last OIC, the move up was when you had 50 Big Bets for the next level. Given that it is more feasable to work on a limited Bankroll when doing SnG's, I thought 10 was a good number. To be perfectly honest though, 10 buy-ins was a totally arbitrary number. I could have made it 17 it I felt like it. Doing it with 20 seems fine to me. It will give you more stability to stay within the limits instead of going in and out of different limits like Fletch has been experiencing.

Another plus of using a smaller bankroll for this type of excercise is that it teaches you to stay off tilt. If you tilt (more of a limit concept than SnG's i guess) with such a small bankroll, you will go broke. We saw this happen to several people when doing this a few months ago. With such strong tilt factors coming into play, you have to be disciplined for this to work, and on the flipside, it will teach you to be more disciplined.

Ajizzle

[Losing all]

Nice to see some updates(and good ones at that) I can't wait to join the fray when I get home.

btw- Jason makes very good points. No shame in locking in a nice win, at any point of this. Excellent post Jason

[ajizzle]

32 SnG's at the $30 level.