PDA

View Full Version : Did I play this right?


blackaces13
04-22-2004, 11:35 PM
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed)

MP2 (t615)
Hero (t835)
CO (t915)
Button (t1655)
SB (t785)
BB (t710)
UTG (t885)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t770)
MP1 (t30)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t15, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t30</font>, CO calls t30, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls t15, UTG+1 calls t15.

Flop: (t130) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets t300</font>, CO calls t300, <font color="CC3333">BB raises to t680 (All-In)</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls t380, CO calls t380.

Turn: (t2170) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 1 all-in) </font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets t205 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t125 (All-In).

River: (t2500) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 3 all-in) </font>

Final Pot: t2500
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: t2170 (t2170), between Hero, CO and BB.</font>
<font color="#990066">Pot 2: t250 (t250), between Hero and CO.</font>
<font color="#990066">Pot 3: t80 (t80), overbet by CO.</font>

blackaces13
04-23-2004, 02:28 PM

sublime
04-23-2004, 02:53 PM
Preflop, I think its either best to limp or make a bigger raise. You really don't want to see a flop here and the min-raise doesnt really accomplish much.

itsmarty
04-23-2004, 03:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t15, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t30</font>, CO calls t30, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls t15, UTG+1 calls t15.

Flop: (t130) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets t300</font>, CO calls t300, <font color="CC3333">BB raises to t680 (All-In)</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls t380, CO calls t380.

Turn: (t2170) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 1 all-in) </font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets t205 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t125 (All-In).

[/ QUOTE ]

Regardless of the outcome, I think this is a pretty good illustration of why a lot of people recommend staying out of the way early in a tourney.

I'm curious about your call for t380 on the flop. Since you didn't fold when one of the worst scare cards hit on the turn, what was the point of keeping that t125 back? And if you were prepared to call with it on the turn, you definitely should have lead with it. You passed up two chances to get the CO out, although it's doubtful he would have taken the opportunity.

I don't like the pre-flop call, I do like leading out with the t300 bet and your set, but I don't like the t380 call with one left to act behind you or the check on the river.

Martin

blackaces13
04-23-2004, 03:09 PM
Sub,

Forget about preflop, I'm not interested in that at all. Its where I lost the other 800 chips that worries me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

itsmarty
04-23-2004, 03:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop, I think its either best to limp or make a bigger raise. You really don't want to see a flop here and the min-raise doesnt really accomplish much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could get behind a larger raise, but I don't see how a limp is an improvement over a min-raise. I prefer a fold.

Martin

NotMitch
04-23-2004, 03:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop, I think its either best to limp or make a bigger raise. You really don't want to see a flop here and the min-raise doesnt really accomplish much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could get behind a larger raise, but I don't see how a limp is an improvement over a min-raise. I prefer a fold.

Martin

[/ QUOTE ]

Limping is much better than a min raise. You are playing for a set with 77 early in a SnG and want to do so as cheaply as possible. Folding preflop at Party with the small stacks is also fine and how I would play. I think any preflop raise here is really bad.

blackaces13
04-23-2004, 03:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious about your call for t380 on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one was going anywhere at this point anyway. Everyone in the hand had about 1/2 their stack in the middle here anyway so I just decided to call it, I didn't even really consider raising my last 125 into a 2000 chips pot. I guess I may as well have but I don't think it makes a difference most of the time.

Perhaps it was worth a shot at getting the CO out since I was already pot committed but I thought I'd be better off left with a couple hundred chips if the CO would check it through. The chances of either getting it checked through or getting the CO to fold for 125 more are both miniscule IMO. Also, if that horrible T didn't turn I wanted to lead into him.

As it turned out nothing I did mattered, CO wasn't going anywhere at any point in the hand. Interestingly, CO did not have a straight, and I was killing the CO on the flop. Can you guess what he had?

steeser
04-23-2004, 03:21 PM
Limping is much better than a raise PF, as you open the door for one of the original limpers to re-raise. You want to see a flop as cheaply as possible with this hand.

Betting out on the flop was good, but when re-raised push it all in, don't hold the 125 back.

blackaces13
04-23-2004, 03:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I prefer a fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think folding pocket 7's in the early stages of a NL 10+1 SNG on Party is throwing away a great opportunity. If you don't flop a set, then you fold. If you do, then hopefully you double up. You invest a little to win a lot.

I now think I should have limped, these games are full of calling stations. I also think the difference between min raising and raising 3X the BB is negligible when the blinds are 10/15. If they'll call 30 they'll damn sure call 45 or 60 IMO.

LetsRock
04-23-2004, 03:31 PM
Well, preflop plays set up the whole rest of the hand. You may be interested in comments on other streets, but PF analysis is importnant too.

Limp is my preference followed by a "buy the pot" raise. Mini-raise is really just wasting chips in this spot with that hand.

GoSox
04-23-2004, 03:31 PM
I always like to limp with pairs like 77 and hope for the set. That being said, once that flop hits you're pretty well screwed. Since it's still early I'd probably be conservative on the flop and see what everyone else is doing. This is the kind of hand you have to have the discipline to get away from.

LetsRock
04-23-2004, 03:45 PM
Limp preflop (it's too early to get tricky with a 77).

I like your lead into a dangerous flop. I don't like this flop, but I just can't give a free card. You could have bet less (it looks like the pot was about 120?) so a pot size bet would have squashed any drawing odds AND allowed you to get away from the hand when BB came back over the top. Your 300 bet pretty much tied you to the pot.

I don't know how the others are playing, but my set of 7s can be bought at this point. Unless I know BB to be full of beans, I let this go. When CO jumps in, I definately bail. There's just too much chance that one of them hit a straight or even a bigger set. Is it possible that I'm ahead? Sure. Is this hand the one I'm going to put my tourney on the line (at this time) to find out? Nope.

OK you called the rediculous raise. You should have shoved then if you weren't going to be able to keep your change in your pocket on the very ugly turn. At least lead with it instead of check/calling.

IMO, you did nothing right after your flop bet. Fold to the BB all-in or get them in while you might still be ahead.

Based on the comment in your other post, I'm gonna guess that CO showed you a QJo and hit a gutshot on a very poorly played hand.

itsmarty
04-23-2004, 03:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps it was worth a shot at getting the CO out since I was already pot committed but I thought I'd be better off left with a couple hundred chips if the CO would check it through.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you called that t380 thinking "maybe they'll let me check this down and show a winner", you should have folded. You thought throwing away your 7's preflop would have been too weak, and folding to the t380 raise would have been too weak, yet you made a weak call hoping they'd let you hang onto your last few chips.

Martin

sublime
04-23-2004, 03:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
could get behind a larger raise, but I don't see how a limp is an improvement over a min-raise. I prefer a fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

A limp is a very good idea, you can bust somebody who catches TPTK and you catcha set.

And all the other fine points /images/graemlins/smile.gif

sublime
04-23-2004, 03:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I now think I should have limped, these games are full of calling stations. I also think the difference between min raising and raising 3X the BB is negligible when the blinds are 10/15. If they'll call 30 they'll damn sure call 45 or 60 IMO.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you are going to raise this early, make it 10% of your stack.

blackaces13
04-23-2004, 04:21 PM
CO showed TT, that BASTARD. BB had QQ?

See, you need to throw 300 at these midnight 10+1 players, and they STILL call you with junk. I will simply NEVER lay down a set in these games, unless maybe the board was monotone.

Thank you to everyone who responded. Apparently I play a lot worse than I thought and I need to hear it. I used to be a strictly ring game player and clearly you sometimes need to use more discretion in an SNG because its NL and when you're out you're out.

I'm gonna be posting a lot of major hands that I encounter in my SNG infancy and I look forward to some more good feedback.

blackaces13
04-23-2004, 04:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
yet you made a weak call hoping they'd let you hang onto your last few chips.



[/ QUOTE ]

IMO I cant fold this simply becaue of the size of the pot and the boat outs. You're right, I may as well hav put in my last 125 on the flop. But does it really matter? I don't think it does when the pot is about 2000.

blackaces13
04-23-2004, 04:31 PM
Yes, the min raise was bad. But in this particular hand it didn't make big difference, I should have limped and had 4 to the flop for 15 apiece. As it were there were 4 to the flop for 30. I don't know why I raised, I think it was my limit mentality kicking in or something.

PrayingMantis
04-24-2004, 02:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, the min raise was bad. But in this particular hand it didn't make big difference

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're missing something here. Sure the 15 more chips you've wasted on this mini-raise didn't make much difference. But when I see someone mini-raising early on, after 2 limpers, with 77, I immidiately label him as "doesn't know what he's doing".

If you want the better players at your table think that about you (and later take advantage of it) then mini-raise - it doesn't really matter much. If you want to act as if you know what you're doing - don't mini-raise, unless there's a very good reason for it (which is rare in no-limit).

Kurn, son of Mogh
04-24-2004, 11:48 AM
1. limp preflop. With Party's structure, you absolutely have to focus on keeping the pot small early. It's too easy to get your whole stack committed with a vulnerable hand.

2. Why the 2.5x overbet on the flop?

3. Once you massively overbet the pot and get one caller *and* a reraise, I don't care where you're playing - you have to give serious thought that maybe bottom set is no good with a possible str8 on the board. The problem is, now you've let the pot get so big, that you almost have to call even if you know you're up against a str8.