An extremely bizarre $8-16 hand

[thatpfunk]

A hand I observed played by player X last night:

The game is loose, not very many good players.
X gets 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif in LP. It is raised in EP by an unknown to X (but is a bad player from my expereinces). Three players call two bets as does X. Five players in the pot for 5 BB.

The flop: 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. EP raiser checks, MP bets, call, call, X calls, EP check raises, all players call. 5 more BB in the pot ($160)

Turn: 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. EP checks, MP raises, call, call, X calls, and EP check raises again. ($320 total pot)

River: J /images/graemlins/club.gif. EP bets out now, fold, fold (shows the 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif before mucking), fold, and player X folds. Final pot- $336 Final board: 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif

After the hand X stated that he was looking for the board to pair with his set in hopes that he would get paid off.

My thoughts- Either fold or raise on the flop and if EP check raises for three bets I feel you can safely throw the hand away. If EP does not raise and it is then checked to you on the turn you recieve the free card to attempt to hit one of his outs. Betting out would also be an option if your image is correct.

In situation I felt that player X should have made a crying call on the river. He is getting roughly 20-1 on the call. I believe it was a Sklansky article which advocated a call such as this because it is profitable if your opponent has over valued his hand or is bluffing etc.

The reason I bring this up is because EP (generally a poor player) shows his hand: 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif for a pair.

I couldn't believe that not only did the entire field fold but that he had the audacity to show...
Comments please.

[DcifrThs]

First off, this "bad player" ironically played the hand exactly as if he had a draw to the nut flush. i mean to the T. this is probably, unbeknownst to him, why everyone folded. you are right though that against really bad players, your calls will be more profitable than normal in this situation.

but beyond that. player X played attrociously. he/she had 2 opportunities to make draws pay, protect the hand, and get more money in the pot with the likely best hand. neither of those opportunities were captialized upon. then on the turn all he could do was call and hope for the board to pay. but when EP bets out on river, and ALL fold and player X can close the action, i make this call 100% against truly bad players. but without that read i fold given how he played.

player X needs to raise that flop, tons of cards beat him on the turn or kill the action he might get now from 7c7s or a pair like that.

-Barron

[Senor Choppy]

I hate making good laydowns more than anyone, but the only thing he can beat on the river is complete insanity.

The preflop raiser check-raised FOUR people on the turn, and then bet into the same four people on the river. If he understands hand rankings, he either has the ace high flush or he's nuts.

It all depends on how likely you think this is, I doubt it's 20-1 though.

My vote's for the shrimp cocktail /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
Either fold or raise on the flop and if EP check raises for three bets I feel you can safely throw the hand away

[/ QUOTE ]
Fold for one bet with a set on this flop? You can't be serious. I think you have to raise this flop, but calling is much much better than folding. And how can you safely fold your hand away if you get three-bet?! Do you think that your opponent must have either 44 or a straight flush? Of course not. And against anything else, folding for one more bet is a huge mistake.

I agree that having gotten to the river here and closing the action, you probably should call for one more bet, although it's fairly close.

[amerksmann22]

Player X lost this hand b/c he didnt raise flop, period. There is no way that EP three bets in that spot. After the turn, then X can take the free card or bet whatever.

[thatpfunk]

I said I would raise on the flop... I would only advocate folding if he is going to lay it down on the river (as he did). And also, if there are both straight and flush possibilities on the flop, I could lay down a set. Three betting into a field of five players with nothing better than player X's hand would be complete insanity. As it was he played it like he had the A high flush the entire time. I think had I not posted the results most would respond, "Well of course he has the ace high flush..."

[thatpfunk]

I completely agree, but I doubt that the player with the 8 high flush lays his hand down on the turn in any other context, so he loses either way...

[legend42]

[ QUOTE ]
I said I would raise on the flop... I would only advocate folding if he is going to lay it down on the river (as he did). And also, if there are both straight and flush possibilities on the flop, I could lay down a set. Three betting into a field of five players with nothing better than player X's hand would be complete insanity. As it was he played it like he had the A high flush the entire time. I think had I not posted the results most would respond, "Well of course he has the ace high flush..."

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if he *showed* him the ace-high flush, folding on the flop would still be monumentally idiotic. If you can't understand that, you've been watching way too much of the Travel Channel.