Are Clark, Dynasty, Fox, Etc. Gonna Play In The WSOP?

[Bill Murphy]

Any ya'll mid-limit pros gonna take a flyer, mebbe try a super satelllite or two? Or try a one table for one of the Limit events?

EV, shme-V, it'd be good for the game. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif Live a lil', f'crissakes. /images/graemlins/wink.gif "If all you do is grind, pretty soon your whole life becomes a fvcking grind." /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Besides, gonna be hard to get into the side games anyway, from what I've heard. Lists for the 15 & 30 at B outrageous last weekend, s'posedly, although you'd certainly know about that better than I.

[Dynasty]

Neither Clarkmeister or I play any tournaments. I think we both have basically the same attitude about this: The real money to be made in poker is in ring games.

[Vehn]

You are nuts. There is simply a ton of money to be made in for example the $200 NLHE sunday tournament on party. An OK player's ROI is probably in the 200% range. Where do you think the biggest impact of the WPT boom goes to?

[Clarkmeister]

I have a friend who wants to put me into it, assume 100% of the risk and split any return above-and-beyond the entry fee 50-50. I turned him down mostly because I don't think its fair to him.

I don't play tournaments for a combination of two reasons. First, I don't think there is that much to be made playing live tourneys in Vegas given the seemingly high rake. Second, even if there were more $/hr to be made in the tourneys, the opportunity cost of sacrificing say 500 hours of live 40-80 in order to achieve the required proficiency in tourney play would be so steep that I could never recover it. Add in the fact that the variance is absurd and I'll just stick to cash games for now.

[Josh W]

I plan on playing in the main event...

I agree w/ Dynasty, that there is more money (per hour) to be made in side games. Moreover, NL tournies are hefty crapshoots. You need to win coinflips. If you are world class, you can try to avoid coinflips, and wait for better opportunites, but you'll likely still need to win a coinflip at some point, or 10.

But...I have people lined up who want to put me in at least part way. I don't think I'll sell over half myself. I have good results in NL tournies, mainly live.

And, quite frankly, I'm tired of friends/family members saying "when am I gonna see you on TV?" So, I figger I oughta just play this year, walk in front of the camera, then move on with my life.

Technically, I told myself that I'd only play if I win 10K between now and the start date. I should be able to do this without too much difficulty, if I'm willing to put in the hours.

I figure now is the perfect time to take a stab at it. I'm young. I have the money. I have no real obligations (i.e. family, or huge bills). I have the time. And, I have the game. So...shuffle up and deal.

Hopefully this answers most/all questions that may arise regarding my thought process....

Josh W

[andyfox]

If by Fox, you mean me, I am not a pro and have never played in a tournament.

There are plenty of tournaments out here in L.A. anyway, to have to travel to a terrible place like Las Vegas just to play poker, is silly. The only thing that makes up for it is the wonderful company of Clark, Dynasty, Poker Babe, etc.

[citanul]

the 200 nlhe on party takes like 7 hours if you make good money in it

40 80 probably pays either of them even single table live somewhere between 80 and 120 an hour or whatever

i dont know if "an ok player"s return is really going to be a net of 700 with the frequency that either of their returns will be that much or better in their games of preference

meanwhile, say that we talk about some other player who plays 200 tournaments and ring also, they probably have the br for 10/20 or whathaveyou, and it's quite probable they too have a better roi multitabling than playing that tournament

just my thought

citanul

[Your Mom]

Dynasty and Clarkmeister,
Just wondering how old you guys are, how long you have been playing, and if you knew each other before your poker days.

[Vehn]

The party 200 is worth $50-100/hour long term I would guess.

[turnipmonster]

problem is the long term is a very,very long time. I have a friend who plays the 200 sitngos and the variance in those is huge, I have to imagine that the bigger tourneys the luck factor is greater still. granted this is probably somewhat compensated by a flatter payout structure (??), but still.....

where I play, the real money in poker is when the tourney winners join us in the PL side games. brings a smile to my face just thinking about it....

--turnipmonster

[Bill Murphy]

[ QUOTE ]
The real money to be made in poker is in ring games.

[/ QUOTE ]

..I was just talking about taking a one- or two-time shot. Change of pace. You would be shocked at the dead money in all the WSOP events, shocked I say.

Hell, if I take top-3 in the Stud Hi/Lo I'll 50%-freeroll you in one of the LHE events.

Seriously, look at what Mike Halford did/does. I believe he just plays the LHE events, maybe only if wins a satellite. A few years ago I think he got a 2nd & a 5th for ~250K or so.

I'm not criticizing at all. I'd go out of my mind playing nothing but ring LHE, but obviously you guys approach it as a job/career and have done well. IMO a successful ring LHE pro would add a lot of spice/variety/refreshment/broadening/whatever to their game by budgeting 1-2K a year for WSOP LHE sats & a super sat or two.

I've read all your guys' short-handed posts. You're both EV+ in all the WSOP LHE events, 'cept mebbe the $5K.

[Bill Murphy]

[ QUOTE ]
Hell, if I take top-3 in the Stud Hi/Lo I'll 50%-freeroll you in one of the LHE events.


[/ QUOTE ]

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
Hell, if I take top-3 in the Stud Hi/Lo I'll 50%-freeroll you in one of the LHE events.

[/ QUOTE ]

If people want to back me, I would definitely play and take a very small %.

Pull the whole $10,000 together and I'll play for about 10%.

[Lottery Larry]

I wish that I could say that $2-3 million wasn't real money... or that I make that much in ring games! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[B-Man]

Why do you live in Las Vegas, considering (a) the games are MUCH looser at Foxwoods (IMHO), and (b) you are from the Boston area (unless I am mistaken)?

I love almost everything about Vegas (including the weather), but every time I go there (which is about once or twice per year) I come back disappointed in the poker games, because they are so much tighter than the games at Foxwoods (which is where I play many weekends, especially when it is not golf season around here).

Do you feel you have a higher EV in Vegas than you would playing at Foxwoods? Or are there non-poker factors that made you decide to live there?

[Poker blog]

[ QUOTE ]
If people want to back me, I would definitely play and take a very small %.

Pull the whole $10,000 together and I'll play for about 10%.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is that +EV for you compared to normal ring play?

After all, you'd be giving up a good amount of time to play for only a relatively small payoff.

Granted, there's no risk, which is nice. Still, why not take more for yourself.

[Jimbo]

[ QUOTE ]
If people want to back me, I would definitely play and take a very small %.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll put up $1000 towards your entry for 9% of the return.

[ohkanada]

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense for people to want to back Dynasty in a Limit Tourney? There is a 5k event a week or so before the big one.

Ken Poklitar

[Jimbo]

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't it make a lot more sense for people to want to back Dynasty in a Limit Tourney? There is a 5k event a week or so before the big one.

Ken Poklitar

[/ QUOTE ]

You are probably correct, I just wanted to throw Dynasty a bone so he wouldn't avoid me next time I am in Vegas. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jimbo

[mike l.]

"..I was just taking about taking a one- or two-time shot."

it's much more +EV for clark or dyn to take a shot by playing 200-400 or something every now and again. tournaments are silly.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

That's not their point. The point is you can play winning poker for 14 hours and make $0 in a tournament.