Mandatory Service

[Nepa]

Is Mandatory Service or as I like to say, The Draft, needed?

[GWB]

No. We have plenty of upright young men willing to serve their country - God bless them.

We will let the pacifists off the hook, even though they don't appreciate the service of patriotic Americans.

W

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Mandatory service is flat out wrong in a free society.

[GWB]

[ QUOTE ]
Mandatory service is flat out wrong in a free society.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you believe it was wrong during World War II?

Will a free society remain free if it can not defend itself?

W

[jcx]

No. What is needed is for the US to remove its troops from Germany, S. Korea, Okinawa etc. Europe and Japan have had a free ride on defense for decades at the US taxpayers expense. Rotate these troops with the ones in Iraq to shorten Tours of Duty. Get a competent Iraqi army trained and get the hell out of there, too. There are ample troops available to take care of the one task the US Military SHOULD be doing: Securing the US Borders & stopping the invasion of illegal immigrants & possible terrorists.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Pacifists don't need the President to "let them off the hook." The way I see it, the President, no matter who he is, is *not* my leader. He's my employee.

Honest dissent in a free society is is the highest form of patriotism. I may disagree with the pacifists, but I do not question their patriotism.

What is it to which we should be patriotic? The flag? No. The President? No. The constitution and the concept of individual liberty? Yes.

Don't get stuck on stupid. Vote Libertarian.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Do you believe it was wrong during World War II?

Yes

Will a free society remain free if it can not defend itself?

No. But a society that forces people into the military is already repressive and thus renders the statement moot.

[elwoodblues]

The draft seems unconstitutional to me. I am sure that it has been challenged as such (and found to be constitutional), but I don't see how it gets around the Thirteenth Amendment -

[ QUOTE ]
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ThaSaltCracka]

i thought they didn't have the draft in WWII.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
No. We have plenty of upright young men willing to serve their country - God bless them.


[/ QUOTE ]
we have plenty of men in the National Guard waiting that you like to throw around. I find it odd that when you were in the National Guard during vietnam, they rarely if ever used them. Then once you become president you call them up and send them off. Why don't you let the national guard hid out in America like you did during vietnam? you atleast owe them that much, after all thats why you joined the National Guard isn't it? Or were you eagerly waiting your chance to fight for your country? If so, you should have joined the fight like Kerry did, you spineless pussy.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

You are joking, right? They drafted men up to 36 years old in WWII.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Barry Goldwater made the very same point during VietNam

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
You are joking, right? They drafted men up to 36 years old in WWII.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, I am wasn't joking, I was asking a question. I am not as old as you, sorry, so I don't remember it like it was yesterday.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Sorry. I wasn't around for WWII either. I just thougt it was common knowledge that the draft had been around since the Civil War. Didn't mean to offend you.

[Ray Zee]

the draft is fine as long as the politicions and their sons and daughters go fight and die as well. but that doesnt happen.
the draft is the same as slavery unless the homeland is being threatened with being taken over. besides thats what we have missles and planes for. so our troops arent needed.
the present system of having an all mercenary miliary is best as they are the ones that chose to fight for the money.

[Nepa]

Most ppl. have said that they don't like the draft but that's not the question. I don't like the draft myself but I do feel that sooner or later it will be needed. My guess is soon after the 2004 election.

Don't fool yourself, It my take the U.S. 10 - 20 years to get out of Iraq.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't fool yourself, It my take the U.S. 10 - 20 years to get out of Iraq.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would be pretty surprised if Iraq caused another draft, but I have heard that many troops are not re-enlisting and that recruits are in fact slowing as well, so who knows. You want to see public opinion sway quickly and abruptly against the war in Iraq, the draft is a perfect way.

BTW, Kurn its all good.

[Nepa]

[ QUOTE ]
I would be pretty surprised if Iraq caused another draft

[/ QUOTE ]

Without Iraq it wouldn't even be a topic. Or if there was an exit plan from the start it wouldn't be a topic either. Opps, strike that last statement, I know GWB doesn't make any mistakes. Sorry 'bout that.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Without Iraq it wouldn't even be a topic. Or if there was an exit plan from the start it wouldn't be a topic either.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why is it a topic then? I still don't think Iraq will cause a draft. It would be political suicide for any sitting president to bring the draft back. So if you want to debate high unlikely what if's associated with iraq go ahead.

[Nepa]

I'm missing something here? What is the exit plan? I'm sorry again if I'm exposing a Bush mistake. I know that is a problem

[Nepa]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is it a topic then?

[/ QUOTE ]

Boy,

Is there a war going on? That is the reason it is a topic!
Yes, I know Tax cuts are good but...

[Stu Pidasso]

The government will offer the same medical benefits to national guardsmen, reservists, and their families that they offer to their regular active duty service members at no cost, or a minimal cost.

Once they do that, they will not have a problem keeping ranks filled amoung the reserves and national guard.

Stu

[GWB]

the draft is the same as slavery
This is the second time someone has stated this ridiculous idea in this thread.

By your logic:
Paying taxes is slavery.(you work 4 months a year for nothing)
Being sent to jail is slavery.
Being commited for mental observation is slavery.
Being compelled to do anything against you will is slavery.

By your logic, I guess all Swiss and all Israelis are slaves, because they have a service requirement.

We live in a society, and we all have basic obligations to that society. Military service is one of those obligations. We should feel fortunate that we do not need a draft now, but it is the height of silliness to call it slavery.


W

[PuppetMaster]

The president is my bitch, not the other way around. We tell him what to do, he doesnt tell us what to do.
[censored] the draft. [censored] Mandatory Service.

I'll kill W before I enlist.

[elwoodblues]

Paying taxes is not forced work. Being sent to jail is not forced work and if while in prison you are forced to work then that is specifically exempted from the 13th Amendment. Mental observation is not forced work. Being drafted into the military is forced work.


How do you define slavery? I ask in all seriousness because the framers of the Constitution must have had a broader definition than the one you have because they specifically exempted prison work camps from the definition of slavery (they wouldn't have had to do this if they had your apparently narrow definition of slavery)

[superleeds]

No. Warfare is now a highly sophisicated business. It takes years of training to operate the equipment used today. If their ever arises a situation where the US's best defense is just putting numbers on the front line it has ceased to be any power at all. If the US as it is today is faced with a situation where its overall military superority is in in jeapody it will use Nuclear Weapens, as will the other side. At the moment the only threat to the US on this sort of scale is Russia and China and I think it's looking mighty peaceful on those fronts at the moment. Fortunately.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

We live in a society, and we all have basic obligations to that society.

Yes, and our *basic* obligation to society is to support ourselves and not initiate force or fraud against others. No more. No less.

The government is the servant of the people. No individual should ever be forced to make any sacrifice for the good of the collective. We may consider those who choose to make such sacrifice as honorable. I know I do. But we must never abandon our commitment to the absolute sovereignity of individual freedom (as long as the individual does not initiate force or fraud).

I'm a libertarian. I'm pro-choice on everything.

[elwoodblues]

Also note that the 13th Amendment reads "neither slavery nor involuntary servitude..." The draft might not be slavery, but by definition it is a form of involuntary servitude.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm missing something here? What is the exit plan? I'm sorry again if I'm exposing a Bush mistake. I know that is a problem

[/ QUOTE ]
You are barking up the wrong tree if you think I am an avid Bush supporter, but you seem to an assumption man.
Anyways, I don't think there will be a draft for Iraq because I don't think any president wants to be the known as the guy who brought back the draft. You think abortiona nd gay marriage are hot topics, the draft is even hotter.

[Cyrus]

Then we will talk about polls and body bags and support for the President.

That'll be the day.

[ThaSaltCracka]

It is the height of sillyness not to call the draft a form of involuntary servitude.

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
The president is my bitch, not the other way around. We tell him what to do, he doesnt tell us what to do.
[censored] the draft. [censored] Mandatory Service.

I'll kill W before I enlist.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have made some stupid posts in the past but this one takes the cake. I'll wave bye as the Secret Service hauls you off for this death threat. Perhaps you should have stayed awake during civics class.