QQ set check on the river?

[DamnRiver]

Two questions: 1) Should I have checked the river when the J fell? 2) Is there a play I might have made to keep him from staying for a gut shot?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, Hero 3-bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (6.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises $3.25 (All-In), Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 10 BB, between Hero and UTG.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by UTG (10 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG shows Ah Ks (straight, ace high).
Hero shows Qc Qh (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: UTG wins 10 BB. </font>

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
Two questions: 1) Should I have checked the river when the J fell? 2) Is there a play I might have made to keep him from staying for a gut shot?


[/ QUOTE ]

no and no. You played this hand fine, checking the river is a bad idea. There are a lot of worse hands that will call you and you can't risk it getting checked through

[deacsoft]

This is open to debate, but I'll give you my opinion.

I'll begin with your second question. The answer is NO. You bet every round. What more can you do? I'm guessing he was chasing because he was almost out of money and no longer cared. However, two overcards and an inside straight draw equals 10 outs (at least he thought his 10 outs were good). If he knew you hand trips he would have folded.

To answer your first question I'll be the first to say bet and call the all-in. If he rivered a four outer so be it. However, since he did come out raising preflop from UTG, called a reraise, and then called your every bet after that you may want to think "you're only going to get called by a better hand". It is not impossible to put him on A-K. It would not have been incorrect to check the river.

[deacsoft]

Can't risk it getting checked through? It was heads up and the only way it was getting checked through was if our hero checked it.

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
Can't risk it getting checked through? It was heads up and the only way it was getting checked through was if our hero checked it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops, I read through the hand too quickly, thanks for pointing out the error. In that case, hero should bet. There are many worse hands that will call.

[deacsoft]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Not trying to be rude.

[DamnRiver]

I had him on AA, KK or JJ after the blank on the turn. I thought about the AK but (and I think I do this too often) I would have folded this hand looking for a gut shot on the river. When the J hit on the river and he c/r'd I figured he hit the set of jacks. But looking at the hand a few times now I would probably do the same thing...That Damn River!

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Not trying to be rude.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all..I also wasn't trying to be an idiot /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ZootMurph]

[ QUOTE ]
However, two overcards and an inside straight draw equals 10 outs (at least he thought his 10 outs were good). If he knew you hand trips he would have folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this. If someone 3-bets, then bets the flop, with a Queen showing, how could he think he had 10 outs? What would most three bet with? AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK for the most part. Against AA &amp; QQ he has 4 outs (4J). Against KK he has 7 outs (3A &amp; 4J). Against JJ he has 8 outs (3A, 3K, and 2J). And he can't win, or lose, against AK. So, at BEST he has 8 outs. I 'think' you can rule out JJ when it bets against a Q. If not, you can reraise to find out, but there isn't a reason, in my opinion. He has pot odds on the flop, but neither pot nor implied odds on the turn or the river. Losing isn't so bad, because he made a mistake on calling the turn and got lucky.

Could you have done anything else? I'd say you could have tried a check raise, but honestly it would have been checked through, and that would have made his play right. I am of the opinion that you have to bet your sets.

You played as well as you could have, in my opinion. He wasn't letting it go since he was low on money, I'm guessing as well.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Two questions: 1) Should I have checked the river when the J fell? 2) Is there a play I might have made to keep him from staying for a gut shot?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. No. NeverNever. Bet the river in this spot 100% of the time.

2. He did not stay for a gutshot. He thought he had 10 outs (3 A's 3K's and 4 J's). If he knew he was up against QQQ, he would have folded.

You played perfectly. He was getting 6-1 but was an 11-1 dog to make his hand. You win that hand 10 out of 11 times. I would love to be in this situation every single hand. Bad results do not = bad play. You got unlucky. The thing to do is foucs on the long term. In the short term, anything can (and will) happen.

[afs]

[ QUOTE ]
I had him on AA, KK or JJ after the blank on the turn. I thought about the AK but (and I think I do this too often) I would have folded this hand looking for a gut shot on the river. When the J hit on the river and he c/r'd I figured he hit the set of jacks. But looking at the hand a few times now I would probably do the same thing...That Damn River!

[/ QUOTE ]

I expect he'd be betting AA or KK postflop, least until you raised him; also, he didn't cap. This is a great example of a very common way of playing AK -- you didn't say what yr read on utg was, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was a relatively respectable weak-tight player -- lots of weak-tight folks magically turn weak-loose postflop w/ AK. It's only been a couple weeks that I've realized how poorly I play these hands &amp; have been trying to fix it ... during this time I've actively noticed play just like UTG's probably 15 times. Really common beautifully awful play, worth anticipating. Don't notice it nearly as often as it happens because usually the AK goes in to the muck on showdown /images/graemlins/wink.gif. But if you go through hand histories ...

I'd say AK is by far the most likely hand here, followed by JJ. Not that I'd play it any differently.

[josie_wales]

Not much you can do here. Villain never has to call more than one bet post flop.

He is probabaly thinking he has any A, K or J as an out.

It happens, move on.

JW