Party getting tight? Just me?

[Webster]

AT 2/4 the last 8 sessions have all been in the 34% range. What's up. I really don't mind although I'm getting spanked every night (I'm hitting hi flushs right and left an losing).

Just me? Where are the fish at 2/4. Have they moved up??

[Chief911]

I think it might just be tables. I just moved up to 2/4 from 1/2, and it seems like I'm in the middle of fish heaven. I would say atleast 60% seeing the flop. Although many times they make you pay more for it.

Very fishy IMHO.

[Tosh]

A game with 34% seeing the flop sounds nice and soft to me.

[Webster]

34% SOFT?? 15,000 hands the average is 39%. However since Janurary the average has dipped to 37%.

65% is soft and not hard to find.

in 15,000 hands at Party I've only played at 1 table that was over 50%.

Party is typical - certainly not soft.

[lefty rosen]

It goes in waves depending how many rookies hit the tables. I found the games at 2/4 much softer in December (during the day EST) than October. (Especially during Christmas break time) But once the new year started the same senders disappeared at the games became loose aggressive, and tough to beat. As a whole the whenever I look at the fulltable averages the games are tighter than they were during the day. But relatively tight doesn't mean its a rock garden either. There are still blind defenders of the faith and ace to the river chasers............

[chesspain]

I think it just depends on the table. I recently moved up from 1/2 to 2/4, and my bankroll is getting plumped up nicely /images/graemlins/grin.gif. However, I don't hesitate to jump off of a table, even as quickly as after only one orbit, if it looks like a rock garden. In fact, sometimes I'll jump through three different tables in less than thirty minutes before finding one that looks good.

[Tosh]

If you can't beat a 34% game its likely you need to work on your play more than game selection.

Not to be harsh but Party games are soft.

[James282]

If this flop % is too low, switch tables. The biggest money making skill any poker player can have is game selection.
-James

[Webster]

ALl with over 1000 hands - flop %% at Party 2/4

November 40.1%
December 40.4%
January 40.2%
Feburary 39.3%
March 38.6%
April 37.6%

Who said anything about not being able to beat 34% tables. I'm not worried. I have to think that after 25,000 hands and making 3.45 BB per 100 that this is a bad run of cards.

I'm breaking even for April which won't kill the bank!

I was just commenting that every table I'v played lately I have 7 people with less then 30% V$Pot playing

[CORed]

I thought the 2/4 games were getting a little tighter unil a few days ago. Still, I have had little trouble beating the games. A lot of the tight players are pretty weak and easy to bluff if you get them heads up. Apparently the latest round of bonuses brought back a lot of clueless fish. It looked like it did a year ago. Lot's of folks calling all the way (and showing) rag-rag no pair, 3 or for cold calls with pre-flop tree-bets, check cold-call on the flop, etc.

[CORed]

I agree. This sort of game is also lower variance (though probably a little lower EV) than the aquarium type, because you get fewer ridiculous suckouts, and you occasionally can steal blinds or semi-bluff the flop.

[dana33]

[ QUOTE ]
A game with 34% seeing the flop sounds nice and soft to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this 34% include the blinds? If so, then that's only 1.4 callers outside the blinds per hand. That seems pretty tight to me. (I play .5/1, so maybe my standards of tightness are warped.)

But regarding the original question, it is consistent with my experience at Party lately. I like to see 5 or 6 callers per hand (including the blinds) and up until recently was usually able to find such a table. Last night, I went through 5 tables trying to find one where at least 4 or more would typically call. No luck.

[Tosh]

Numbers seeing the flop isn't the sole factor determing how tough a game is. Tight games can be beaten using the correct approach. You just need to adjust your game.

[The_Eye]

Yeah, I had a wonderfully loose passive .50/1.00 table last night (as in no pf raises, 7 seeing the flop, then checking all around after the flop), but sadly it tightened up after a short while.

[1800GAMBLER]

Tight is abnormal play, it's not natural to want to just sit and fold, it comes only from wanting to improve/beat the game. So when a player/game gets tighter they are improving.

[charlie_t_jr]

I think your debating two different things...a soft/tough table....and a tight/loose table.

[Tosh]

True but tight games are still beatable.

[astroglide]

feb 15/30: 31.67%
mar 15/30: 30.93%
apr 15/30: 29.30%

[Webster]

yea - tight 2/4 BUT passive - Average pots are lowering.

astroglide - not as bad as 2/4 Pokerstars or 2/4 UB OR 1/2 games at Pokertropulas.

How is the aggression up there - are they scared money? I dabbeled in 5/10 and frankly the games were like 2/4 but way way passive.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
How is the aggression up there - are they scared money? I dabbeled in 5/10 and frankly the games were like 2/4 but way way passive.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Party 15/30 can get very hyperaggressive at times. If there are a couple of maniacs at the table, you can sometimes have a swing of +/- $1,000 in 15 minutes.

[Nate tha' Great]

All businesses are seasonal to some extent, so maybe we ought to think about some of the triggers that would induce new players to play poker, or to induce marginal players to play more poker.

Among the things that I think we'd want to consider are:

* Site-specific advertising efforts. Every time I see a Party Poker commrecial on TV, I figure that's a penny or two of +EV for me.

* General poker exposure. The WSOP coverage should help things some in a month or so. The WPT events are now occuring so regularly that I don't know that there's going to be an ongoing boost from them. If NBC or FOX or something started airing a poker show, that would be significant.

* Seasonal factors. People are going to be more inclined to play poker when it's unpleasant outside, e.g. during the winter. OTOH, people have more leisure time in general during the summer.

* Microeconomic factors. People are likely to receive large lump sums of money on or around the holidays (Christmas bonuses and gifts). There's probably some residual benefit from people receiving tax refunds, which should start soon.

It certainly seems possible to me that we're at something at a low point in the poker cycle; we're 11 months away from the last WSOP ... the weather has been unseasonably warm in many parts of the country ... OTOH, students are still in school, and the spring and fall tend to be busier parts of the year for most professionals.

It's also possible that we're nearing the inflection point of the poker "bubble"; while the number of poker players continues to grow, it is not going quite as rapidly as it might have been a month or two ago, and it is this growth that is probably the best proxy for what we'd call "fishiness". I happen to think that the first three months of this year were subject to a convalescence of shorter-term and longer-term cyclical trends that were incredibly favorable, but which are not sustainable over the longer term.

That said, the games are still very, very good, and they're going to continue to be very good for a long time. It's a great time to be a skilled poker player.

[1800GAMBLER]

I'm not, i'm saying one leads to the other.

[Webster]

LOL - That is why I'm content down here in the trenchs at 2/4. Nice easy living - no stress and still 14 grand a year playing 1 table.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
yea - tight 2/4 BUT passive - Average pots are lowering.

astroglide - not as bad as 2/4 Pokerstars or 2/4 UB OR 1/2 games at Pokertropulas.

How is the aggression up there - are they scared money? I dabbeled in 5/10 and frankly the games were like 2/4 but way way passive.

[/ QUOTE ]
aggression up there is VERY HIGH

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL - That is why I'm content down here in the trenchs at 2/4. Nice easy living - no stress and still 14 grand a year playing 1 table.

[/ QUOTE ]

play 8 tables and make 14x8 = 112K, now that's better living.

[squiffy]

That's been my experience. My play has always been enough to make a tiny tiny profit over the long run. But recently have been having much more trouble at low limits to 2/4. Very strange.

[charlie_t_jr]

Well, I think there's a difference. A "tight" table could be soft. I don't think tight = tough...that's all I'm saying.

[lefty rosen]

Because you know what the other players are calling on raises. Also you know that since they are tight they won't chase. You just have to be the most aggressive on the table and you will win nearly every time on these tables......

[Webster]

I watched 3 5/10 tables last not on Party and frankly - I was not impressed with the talent LOL.

Aggressive but not very bright at all 3 tables. I could nevertell if they were bluffing or just playing bad hands.

Seems to me that most of the 5/10 players were 1/2 players with big banks!

[Styles]

I'm gonna say Party $2/$4 has gotten a tad tighter preflop on the whole, but, looser postflop and a bit more aggressive. My swings are huge right now and I've lost many more MonsterPots where I thought MHIG to really awful hands, but, mostly to Big Pairs that chased and got really lucky.

I've reread Feeney twice in the last 2 weeks. It's hard to be happy when you lose a 25BB pot on the river, but ...

I had two hands yesterday where I called a raise multiway with Ace-Big suited and both times turned or flopped my flush with no pairs on board, runner runner Kings for 4 of a kind and runner runner 4s to lose to Jacks full of Fours. Both pots capped the flop and turn with at least 3 opponents.

You have to be happy when someone caps the flop with pocket Kings with a 3 flush showing don't you?

(Party won't send me HH's or I could post them)

[John Deere]

I was going to say that Party 2/4 has been getting tighter, but this past weekend has been absolutely ridiculous. I've had to look numerous times to make sure I didn't sit down at a .5/1 table. There have consistently been 7 or 8 limpers pre-flop at my tables.

Not sure if this is isolated or not, but I (again) get the feeling it has to do with the increased amoutn of advertising I've seen on TV in the past two weeks for Party.

[peter t 9]

just curious webster. how many hours a week do you play?

[Webster]

Average ABOUT 25 but golf is chewing up a few hours now.

IS that good or bad.

Don't get me wrong - there were some pretty good players up there but most were just pushing chips with bad hands. AND THAT would beat me with my scared money!

I play for fun - making money is a side bonus that seems to be happening.

[bicyclekick]

I was just going to comment that I've noticed the 3/6 games getting tighter the past few weeks. I've still been crushing it, but it's just a different game now. I can even feel the 3% flop difference. Still pretty fishy at 30.91%, but I've now that I've amassed quite a few hands with regulars...I've noticed a growing percentage of them are tight/aggressive /images/graemlins/frown.gif Least I have notes on em I guess.

march - 33.62%
april - 30.91%

very similar to fop percentages in 15/30.

[Webster]

Just to add to the topic - last night (Sunday) 2/4 - 6 tables 150 hands - looses table I could find was 36%.

odd night really - down 20 BB, up 19BB, down 20 BBs up 21 BBS - talk about streaks LOL .

[IlliniRyRy]

Styles,

I noticed the exact same thing at 3-6. Preflop is tighter (34% range) but post flop, they just don't lay down anything. Everytime I get AA or KK, it either gets folded around preflop or it ends up being a huge pot, even with ragged flops. BTW....I had a problem with hand histories too, are they still not sending them to you?