Is 2 Pair Good Here?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

This hand doesn't involve me, but I was sitting on the table.
UB .5/1.00

BB has 63o. Limpers all around.
FLOP: 6 4 3 r

BB pot sizes it. MP guy makes it an even 15. BB reraises 40. MP all ins him for an additional 110. Should BB call? I think its an easy no. What does MP have?

[Ben]

I'd call here.

MP has AA-TT.

[bunky9590]

that would be the worse AA-TT Ive ever seen. Smells like a set or 57s. But I'd be more inclined to believe the set.

[Ben]

[ QUOTE ]

that would be the worse AA-TT Ive ever seen. Smells like a set or 57s. But I'd be more inclined to believe the set.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

Limps PF hoping to limp-reraise.

Flop is ideal for something like KK. BB bets out and MP raises, but low enough that he could get paid off. He's not terribly worried about overcards so he can afford to see the turn easy. BB reraises. MP pushes, figuring with a non-action flop he's against a lower PP.

Would that be an unreasonable line of play?

-ben

[bunky9590]

Limp reraise from EP fine. Limp reraise from MP? what purpose? limp reraise with TT? ouch.

Nah I'm still going with a set.

Like I said, if they tried a limp reraise from MP with AA or KK then the deserve to get stiffed.

I'm betting its 66 or another set. ButI'd limp in with 75s in a passive game with a stack.

[ QUOTE ]
BB reraises. MP pushes, figuring with a non-action flop he's against a lower PP.


[/ QUOTE ]

Right, like 66 or 33 for the set. (you would think)

Rest assured if I come back over the top of you there like that, with that board? I'm holding a set and NOT an overpair. (or less likely the 57s)

[Chris Daddy Cool]

MP has 44 for the set and takes it down. Barring any read from my opponents, I'm folding here everytime.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Did MP guy play it right? Shouldn't HE be worried about some type of hand too?

[NLfool]

2 pair on a straight board and it's not even top 2 pair is an easy laydown for that much action.

[Ben]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd limp in with 75s in a passive game with a stack.


[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

I think I need to adjust my starting hands a bit. I think I'm missing some potential value in drawing hands.

Assuming a passive game, where you're 65% certain you can get in for one bet, what drawing hands would you play?

-Ben

[cornell2005]

a more interesting question to me is should the BB reaise after getting his pot bet raised to 15 dollars? i vote no, just call. (the following arguement would be a bit more convincing if say i had top 2 pair, and was likely against a bottom set. but it may be interesting anyway)

im immediatly thinking set, since i can throw out AA, KK, QQ, TT in this low of a BB game since no raise preflop.

so knowing im about 75 percent sure im against a set, the worst thing taht could possibly happen is for me to get more money in the pot, and not even get a chance to fill up and take his whole stack. (albeit in this situation you only have 1 card to fill up on, but i guess im thinking of more of a general situation where you hold top 2 pair instead of bottom and top, or hold 2 pair against a straight)

clearly the reraise has the power of letting you know where you are at sooner, and probably cheaper. if you just call, you will need to put more moeny int he pot to see if hes got the set than if you just reraised in the first place. but in this situation i would bet on him having the set just by his preflop play and the first raise, so reraising for information isnt as important a consideration.

so, in a situation where you had top 2 pair vs a probable set, and you bet pot and he reraises, that the decision to reraise or call ended up depending on the probability you would assign to him having the set? if you really have no clue, then you would go for the reraise, and if you were somewhat confident he has the set, you would just call if the raise was small enough?

[Garland]

If MP is a smart player, he should realize that BB got a free play and could have anything. So therefore, he should be naturally afraid of 75...that is, unless he has it himself.

I vote for MP having 75, but MP could easily have 64, 63 or a set. I think BB can fold comfortably here.

Garland

[Ben]

At these limits?

I dunno.

I've seen JJ played like this too many times to not call down. Party's $25 NL tables really are that bad.

-Ben

[Daann]

I think that MP played it a bit too fast, if BB was presumed to be a reasonable player... Once he got reraised by BB for the $40 dollars, I reckon he probably should have called. Not because he might be up against the straight, but because BB would fold almost all the hands he's beating and so he loses out. You can then make more money off him on the turn and the river, and you lose less if he has the straight. Only problem is that if one of the scare cards hits, your action is killed, but he would have folded anyway so it doesn't matter.

This all presumes that BB is good enough to fold anything below a set in the event of an all in. Obviously, MP played it perfectly in this case.

[bunky9590]

75s with position is NP but I play deeper stacks with passive competition. Party's 50BB structure really sux.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

I think I need to adjust my starting hands a bit


[/ QUOTE ]

There's no need to call with 7-5 in the Party games I think you play, unless you and at least two others who are in the pot have big stacks (three buyins at least).

With the 50BB stacks, the hands you want to build are top-pair-top-kicker, overpairs, and sets. That is to say, hands that are likely best on the flop and turn, because that's when you'll be putting the money in.

Guy.

[Ben]

Right, I knew this.

Thanks Guy

-Ben

[Shaun]

By getting in early he avoids having to make a tough decision should a 5, 2, or 7 show on a later street. He is probably paying off anyway if he is beat, so he might as well go to war here.

[bunky9590]

Don't adjust your drawing hands in the party games unless there are at least to other (Or more) big stacks at the table (and YOU also have a stack). Those Party 50BB buyins really bite.

I play Prima 100 and 200 NL and they allow a buyin of 100 and they don't have that infernal "Bet pot" button. You have clowns with 160 behind betting 4 dollars into a 20 dollar pot. Begging you to suckout on them. THATS when you can start playing the biggety bam suited crap. (or call raises with 300XBB stacks in the game with 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif) and spike it to take someones stack.

[MVicuna]

Hi,

I've played party at the same levels as Ben. You will see overpairs played exactly like this. Unfortunetly once they drop their buyin they never rebuy. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

MarkV.

[bunky9590]

I wholeheartedly believe you and Ben. Just don't think that Party Poker is the standard for how things get played. Small stack buyins with bad players really change the game.

I don't doubt that people on Party would do those crazy things (I've seen some bizarre crap) but when you move into a bigger game with deeper stacks, you can narrow their holdings a bit more. (If they are reasonable, not necessarily good.)

You will still find some bad play even with deep stacks. (and even against reasonable players)

Had a decent player the other day, let the pot stay small with QQ whn I had KQ and I rivered the gut shot to the K high straight, (He had Q high straight) I check raised him on the river, he reraised to re open the betting and I had like 60 left after calling his reraise, I push he thinks and calls, and gets shown the bad news for a 220 pot. (The pot was unraised PF and HE tried the limp reraise. But then couldn't let it go.

What makes me say this story is that he comments after the hand, "I've been playing too much on party, NH"

[MVicuna]

Hi,

I've heard NL plays very differently on other sites due to 'reasonable' players being in greater abundance then at party.

I'm not in a rush to try out those tables. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Forgive me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

MarkV.