Hands like this kill me

[Ben]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (10 handed)

Button ($56.80)
SB ($48.70)
BB ($86.65)
Hero ($53.85)
UTG+1 ($47.30)
UTG+2 ($253.27)
MP1 ($45)
MP2 ($44)
MP3 ($82.60)
CO ($50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $1.
Hero raises to $5, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO (poster) calls $4, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.



Flop: ($11.50) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
Hero bets $11, CO calls $11.

Hey look! My nightmare flop! Ah well, I'll pot it anyway and hope he folds.

Hrm. He called that. What can I put him on?

Turn: ($33.50) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
Hero bets $10, CO calls $10.

My nightmare grows worse. Still, checking here and showing weakness will let him bet into me, giving me a tough decision. I don't want to be in that position.

Crap, called again. At this point can I put him on the flush? Could he be playing QQ this way? What about JJ? Certainly seems like he can beat KK.

River: ($53.50) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
Hero checks, CO bets $10, Hero calls $10.

At this point I've given up mentally. I just want the hand over. I expect a push here, planning to fold. My opponent makes a small bet, and I make a crying call.

Final Pot: $73.50
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: $73.50, between Hero and CO.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by CO ($73.50).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows Kd Kh (one pair, kings).
CO shows Ac 2c (flush, ace high).
Outcome: CO wins $73.50. </font>


How can I avoid losing so much to hands like this? Granted, my opponent made a pretty terrible call PF (right?), but how do I play hands like this? The three clubs is almost manageble. I'm okay betting out on that flop. When my opponent calls, should I put him on the flush? Maybe? When the fourth falls I must be screwed, but I'm wary of giving my opponent the chance to push me off a hand with an obvious scare card. Couldn't he be playing the same way with 99,TT,QQ, etc? Should I be assuming that an opponent calling bets of this size on this board can beat KK?

Have I overcompensated from weak-tight to over-aggressive?

Dumping my stack to this hand got me pretty annoyed, and I called it a night at this point.

-Ben

[thenextguy]

I make mistakes like this: I think everyone I'm playing against is a poker god and it's my duty to snap off their bluffs because I'm smart enough to see through their B.S. What happens more offten than not is that there is no trickery. They are betting *gasp* because they have a hand.

Think of it this way: he has no idea what you have. And even if he puts you on a big pair, or AK, he has no idea if you have a club. The flop, I think, is worth a bet. However, when he calls he almost certainly has some sort of a hand. Why? Because those clubs look just as scary to another player unless he has a hand. Now, exceptional players might still make a move at the pot, but most people who don't have a hand there don't like those clubs either. And most people you're playing against aren't poker gods.

Try to forget that you had an absolute monster preflop--forget that it was awesome just 15 seconds ago. Pretend the hand just started on the flop. How much do you like your hand?

I'm not suggesting that anything that happened preflop doesn't matter, but you need to assess your hand on the flop, and on the turn, without any thought as to how good it once was.

[Ben]

My problem is this: checking on the flop or the turn makes it very very easy for my opponent to make a pot-sized bet and push me off my hand.

Players at the $50 NL, while generally weak, are somewhat decent at taking advantage of this kind of weakness.

I guess in this situation, I may just have to do weakly check-fold on the turn, but I really hate that play.

[bunky9590]

Ben, pot the flop. If he calls, give up. get to showdown (if you can) If he pots the turn, fold.

See how important position is?

[cornell2005]

check the turn.

checking the turn isnt necessarily seen as a weak play btw. if i had the flush and i bet the flop and got flat called, i would sometimes check call the turn depending on my read of the player. betting twice into a flush draw that keeps getting worse is a clear indiciation that you have a flush. yet, he kept calling. so he must not be afraid of this. if he thought you were bluffing, he woulda probably raised you instead of cold calling.

[Ben]

[ QUOTE ]
if he thought you were bluffing, he woulda probably raised you instead of cold calling.


[/ QUOTE ]

A lightbulb just went off for me.

Thanks.

[Garland]

Hi Ben,

When an opponent stone calls a pot bet like that on those kind of boards, alarm bells should be ringing. The flop pot bet was fine, but perhaps you should proceed with caution on the turn. You have to ask yourself what else could he possibly be calling on? The river bet begs to be called and unfortunately, you got yourself stuck calling it because of your turn bet. Curiosity kills the cat. It also kills your bankroll too!

It's true he made a questionable call of your pre-flop raise (he did have Ax suited with position, so maybe it's not too bad). But the way it played out, he got the maximum in return because of how you played it.

Garland

[Guy McSucker]

Ben,

There is no shame in showing weakness when your hand is weak.

People don't tend to call a bet on a single-suited board without either a hand better than one pair, or a big card of the suit in question. When the fourth club falls, your hand is toast, pure and simple.

Yes, there are players in these games who will pounce on perceived weakness, but it is extremely rare to find someone who will call a preflop raise, then call a bet on a board like this, in the hope of catching a fourth club so that he can bet you off your hand. If he's somehow good enough to "know" you have no clubs, good luck to him.

Guy.