An homage to Festus - A "big card" quiz...

[Raiser]

At the risk of (a) looking stupid and (b) boring some of the superstar posters, here is a quiz with 15 ficticious "big card" hands. Most of them are situations where the flop misses me and, even after a year's worth of experience, I'm still not 100% sure what the correct play is. Assume all hands take place at Party .5/1 tables and there are no reads on any of the players. Let me know what you'd do and also let me know when the choice is so obvious that I shouldn't be wasting your time with the question /images/graemlins/wink.gif Also feel free to change some of the scenarios a bit if you think it would be more illustrative of an important point.

Hopefully this will help others as well. It seems like playing overcards should be easy, as I'm sure it is for some of you. Hopefully this post will help the rest of us play them better than we currently do.

Hand #1: I get A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif UTG. I raise and get 2 callers (neither blind calls). Flop is Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif. My action?

Hand #2: Same as #1 except I get 5 callers (neither blind).

Hand #3: I get A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif in BB. 4 call, SB calls, I raise, everyone calls. Flop is T /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif. SB checks, my action?

Hand #4: Same as #3 except flop is T /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB checks, my action?

Hand #5: I get K /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in SB. 2 LP callers to me, I complete, BB checks. Flop is 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I check, it's bet, call, call, my action?

Hand #6: I get K /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif in SB. 2 LP callers to me, I raise, BB calls, 2 LPs call. Flop is 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. My action?

Hand #7: I get A /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in MP2. UTG calls, I raise, button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls. 5 to the flop, which is Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Checked to me. My action?

Hand #8: Same as #7 except SB bets out on flop, BB calls, UTG calls, my action?

Hand #9: Same as #7 except flop is Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB bets, BB calls, UTG calls, my action?

Hand #10: Same as #7 except only UTG calls preflop. UTG checks the flop, I bet, UTG raises, my action?

Hand #11: I get K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif on button. 5 limpers to me, my action?

Hand #12: I get K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif on button. 5 limpers to me, I raise. Blinds call, other limpers call. 8 to the flop, which is J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif. Check, Check, bet, call, raise, fold, call, my action?

Hand #13: I get K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif on button. 1 limper to me, I raise. Blinds fold, limper calls. 2 to the flop, which is A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Limper bets into me, my action?

Hand #14: I get K /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif on button. 1 limper to me, I raise, BB calls, limper calls. 3 to the flop of J /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. Checked to me, my action?

Hand #15: I get A /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif in CO. 2 limpers to me, I raise, button 3-bets, blinds fold, 1 of the limpers calls, I call. 3 to the flop, which is: T /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Limper checks, my action?

[WLC4Ever]

I don't have any answers but I would love to see some feedback on these as well. I think my biggest leak is misplaying overcards when I miss the flop, especially against super-loose party players.

[ZootMurph]

None of these answers are necessarily 'right'... just what I'd do. I'm hopeful my play can be improved by reading this, as some of these scenarios may well be weak spots in my game.

1: Bet out. Call a raise. Check/fold the turn if you don't hit your hand or check/call if A /images/graemlins/heart.gif or K /images/graemlins/heart.gif rears its ugly head.
2: Same as 1, except I'd check/fold the A/K /images/graemlins/heart.gif as well.
3: Bet to pump up the pot as much as you can.
4: Bet out, call a raise, check/fold the turn if a /images/graemlins/heart.gif shows or I don't hit an A or K. Check/fold the A/K /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
5: Fold. Didn't hit your hand, could still be losing to an ace... nasty board... not worth playing.
6: Bet. Because you raised, you want to give everyone a chance to fold and find out if someone has a hand.
Call a raise and check/fold any non heart and the 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, bet again if a second heart comes on the turn.
On this, what do you do if you bet, are raised, and call the flop, then a Q hits the turn?
7: Check/call. You have pot odds to take a shot at a T. Fold if two bets to you. Several still to play behind you that called your preflop raise... you are currently behind someone. Fold the turn if a T does not hit the board. Call down the hand if you hit an A or K.
8: Pot odds to call are good, so you can call if you don't expect a raise behind. I call.
9: Don't have the backdoor nut flush, leaving 3 Ts to give you a straight. Pot odds are not 16:1, so you must fold.
10: No pot odds or implied odds. Fold.
11: I don't know what is right here, but KQo is not a raising hand for me with several limpers, even in position. I call.
12: 3-bet. The only thing to worry about right now is the Ax /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. A set isn't a concern yet, nor is two pair. More often than not you won't be up against Ax /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, so you can floor it. If the board pairs, you need to rethink things. If the flush hits and you are being reraised, you need to slow down.
13: Since he didn't reraise preflop, AA can be ruled out. Since he called a raise preflop, a 7 is not a large possibility. Probably has A something. 6.5:1 pot odds is good for a call. Call down to river unless an A or 7 shows. Fold if flush doesn't hit.
14: Bet. You need to know if someone is slowplaying a Jack, and if there is a flush draw you don't want them having a free card. If reraised, fold.
15: I'd check with folding on my mind. I was 3-bet and didn't hit the flop. Not going to waste any further money with nothing.

Again, I'm not a great player by any stretch... fish is closer to reality. I can't wait to see the discussion here.. nice post, Raiser.

[Rico Suave]

Hey Raiser:

Hand 1. Bet
Hand 2. Check
Hand 3. Bet
Hand 4. check
Hand 5. call
Hand 6. Bet
Hand 7. Bet
Hand 8. Raise
Hand 9. Raise
Hand 10. Call
Hand 11. Call
Hand 12. 3 bet
Hand 13. call
Hand 14. bet
Hand 15. Check

[chrisgs]

I'll give it a shot, feel free to rip me apart, as I don't claim to be an expert.

Hand #1: Bet - if you think they may fold
Hand #2: check - with that many players you're in trouble
Hand #3: bet - build the pot
Hand #4: check (see #2)
Hand #5: fold
Hand #6: bet
Hand #7: bet - you've still got some outs
Hand #8: call and see what happens
Hand #9: call and fold turn unimproved
Hand #10: rereaise
Hand #11: call - easy raise if suited
Hand #12: call - and hope others do, too
Hand #13: raise - trying for a free card
Hand #14: bet - fold to a raise
Hand #15: check/fold

[Festus22]

Given the title, how can I refuse.

1. Bet
2. Check
3. Bet
4. Check
5. Fold
6. Check
7. Bet
8. Call
9. Call
10. 3-bet or fold (I'd probably 3-bet)
11. Call
12. 3-bet
13. Raise
14. Bet
15. Check

Good questions.

[afs]

This is a _very_ good idea.

These are my probably ill-formed responses. I'm looking forward to seeing what sort of consensus develops.

1. Bet out.
2. Check, call one bet. Folding is probably about is good.
3. Hammer it.
4. Check-call. Really not sure.
5. Foooold.
6. Bet.
7. Check-call. Fold if unimproved.
8. Call.
9. Fold.
10. Man. REALLY do not know. Probably fold.
11. Raise.
12. Just call. Keep people in.
13. Raise.
14. Check. Really not sure.
15. Check-fold.

[Trix]

1. Bet, you might have the best hand and since the flop is Q-high, they wont call with overcards.
2. Check-fold. There is a good chance that some of my outs aren´t clean
3. bet and 3bet if they let you.
4. Check-call one.
5. Raise preflop. Fold, small pot, they might have trips.
6. Bet.
7. Bet, check turn if you get many calls.
8. Call, I dont like my chances of a freebie if I raise.
9. Call, getting 13:1
10. Call, this is player dependant though.
11. Raise. They limp with trash and you will win you share.
12. Reraise.
13. Player dependant. Probably a call vs the avg call station.
14. Bet.
15. check-fold.

[ggano]

1 - Bet
2 - Check/call
3 - Check/call
4 - Check/call
5 - Fold
6 - Bet?
7 - Check/call
8 - Call
9 - Close decision - call
10 - Call
11 - Raise
12 - Call or raise
13 - Call
14 - Bet
15 - Check

[MicroBob]

this is good stuff. thanks for posting this.

my answers didn't quite match up with everyone else as i would have liked but that's okay.

looking forward to gaining further insight via the discussion of these hands.

[Raiser]

Thanks for all that have responded so far. I'll put up a tally later today. Hopefully one of the pooh bahs will chime in with the answer key.

Here is what I would do for each of these.

1-bet
2-check
3-bet
4-check
5-fold
6-check
7-bet
8-raise
9-call
10-call
11-call
12-call
13-raise
14-bet
15-check

[Joe Tall]

At the risk of (a) looking stupid...

The forum is here to debate and educate. Who cares if you look stupid; what you'll benefit will make you a better player in the long run.

I didn't get the bankroll to play 15/30 by NOT putting my foot in my mouth two dozen times only to have it removed by JTG, Homer, Nottom, Clark, Dynasty, Barry, Crackhead even that little punk a$$ GoT and stuck up my a$$. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #1: I get A /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif UTG. I raise and get 2 callers (neither blind calls). Flop is Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif . My action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet. Versus 2-opponents, I'll always stick one in on the flop as the PFR.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #2: Same as #1 except I get 5 callers (neither blind).

[/ QUOTE ]

Check/call one. You've got overcard outs that may not be clean so precede with caution.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #3: I get A /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif in BB. 4 call, SB calls, I raise, everyone calls. Flop is T /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif . SB checks, my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet, and 3-bet. You are getting great equity on your draw.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #4: Same as #3 except flop is T /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif . SB checks, my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is pretty big and you've got a double runner runner w/overcards. I'd check and depending on the position of the bet call one. Such that if LP bets and you have a tricky/check-raisey type or two between you and LP, you may want to lay it down as calling 2 would suck.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #5: I get K /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in SB. 2 LP callers to me, I complete, BB checks. Flop is 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif . I check, it's bet, call, call, my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

RAISE PREFLOP!!!! You'd have such a better chance taking this down with a flop bet if did!

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #6: I get K /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif in SB. 2 LP callers to me, I raise, BB calls, 2 LPs call. Flop is 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. My action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet. Your overcards are most likely clean and you've got a chance to take it down on this kind of flop. Assuming someone has made trips is weak/tight. You are likely to see J8s, 56s more often than the 7.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #7: I get A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in MP2. UTG calls, I raise, button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls. 5 to the flop, which is Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif . Checked to me. My action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet and call a raise.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #8: Same as #7 except SB bets out on flop, BB calls, UTG calls, my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

No reason to raise and you've got odds to draw, call.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #9: Same as #7 except flop is Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif . SB bets, BB calls, UTG calls, my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Still call.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #10: Same as #7 except only UTG calls preflop. UTG checks the flop, I bet, UTG raises, my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Call. Player dependant, I've even over-represented and 3-bet NOTE: this was an extreme bluffy LAG.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #11: I get K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif on button. 5 limpers to me, my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

F-them and their Jxs, raise.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #12: I get K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif on button. 5 limpers to me, I raise. Blinds call, other limpers call. 8 to the flop, which is J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif . Check, Check, bet, call, raise, fold, call, my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

3-bet.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #13: I get K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif on button. 1 limper to me, I raise. Blinds fold, limper calls. 2 to the flop, which is A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . Limper bets into me, my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would call. Often you'll get someone to continue when your flush hits and you'll get your chance on later streets to raise.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #14: I get K /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif on button. 1 limper to me, I raise, BB calls, limper calls. 3 to the flop of J /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif . Checked to me, my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet, prefect flop to take it down.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #15: I get A /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif in CO. 2 limpers to me, I raise, button 3-bets, blinds fold, 1 of the limpers calls, I call. 3 to the flop, which is: T /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . Limper checks, my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check, player dependant fold/call.

I hope this helps and I didn't f-up any of the hands when I copied them. Any questions or rebuttals, bring them on as I'm used to the taste of my foot. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Peace,
Joe Tall

[ggano]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand #5: I get K /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in SB. 2 LP callers to me, I complete, BB checks. Flop is 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif . I check, it's bet, call, call, my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

RAISE PREFLOP!!!! You'd have such a better chance taking this down with a flop bet if did!


[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. Would you still raise if you were the BB? (I'm interested both in the case where SB completes and the case where SB folds.)

[Joe Tall]

Interesting. Would you still raise if you were the BB? (I'm interested both in the case where SB completes and the case where SB folds.)

Yes.

I played a hand a month ago w/JTG to my right at the Foxwoods 10/20. The game was super passive, 3 limpers to me and I raise KQo in the SB, JTG folded.

I bet an all undercard flop and undercard turn and was called in all 3 places each time. The river was a 7, the highest card on the board and I checked. It was checked through and flipped over my KQo and it was GOOD!

Joe U witnessed this hand also, I was surprised as them that all 3-opponents held exactly 8-K and no pair.

Peace,
Joe Tall