For Andy simply because I'm bored

[Clarkmeister]

By request. Low content.

40-80. Loose passive fish who I've been isolating open limps on the button. I complete my small blind with Qc4h. Coilean knuckles. 3 to the flop.

Flop: 9d 5h 2s. Checked around.

Turn: Ad. I check, Coilean bets, button folds, I call with the intention of calling down.

River: 9s. I check, Coilean checks, I proudly say "I have a queen". He nods, I table, and MHIG.

[M2d]

cool call, nice hand, etc. I'm sure Coilean appreciates the fact that you posted this here =)

[DcifrThs]

nice one clark.

coilean was playing the situation, weak players (hehe) and all checked, scary turn card. you took it a step further and knew he would play this situation with all sorts of bb garbage and that q high is quite possibly the best hand. BUT, i would take issue with your decision to call him down if he bets the river. given the play...if he bets AGAIN, then q high is likely no good. that one bet is good for him 'cause it works more than 120:80 is offereing so good bet. you read that and called with a hand that is likely good given he plays bb garbage the exact same way 200:80...

but given the call(now 360) do you think he bets with less than q high on the river after your call and check more than 420:80? i don't. unless he knows you think like this, then he bets every time...but you know coilean better than i so its all you clark

-Barron

[Coilean]

Like I told Clark after the hand, I thought he should have considered a check raise on the turn, which should push me off K-high or a better Q. It may not have turned out well this time since I had picked up the flush draw with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and was already considering a 3-bet in case anyone raised, but if he had called me with the Q-high after the 3-bet, that would have been total ownage /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

I found it amusing that Clark can call me on the turn with Q-high precisely because the turn was an A, a card that neither of us is likely to have given the prior action. Most other cards that come on the turn should see the first person betting picking up the pot, but the A really lends itself to a lot of multi-level posturing should anyone be in the mood for it.

[mike l.]

im sure youll disagree (and the results speak for themselves to some extent) but i can think of many much better situations to get in than calling for two chips w/ Q4o in the sb and then using 2 bbs to call a tight solid expert player down w/ Q high in a tiny pot. yuck.

that said, if you still feel compelled to play the Q4o against the awful button ((which is of course reasonable) the correct play is raising preflop.

[mike l.]

"I had picked up the flush draw with J3 and was already considering a 3-bet"

that's really the only play because the pot is so small it makes basically no sense to call a raise and then fold if you miss. pairing the J you call and pairing the 3 you cringe and what?

how about just checking the turn in this oh... 3 small bet pot! seriously, not much worth betting for is there?

[andyfox]

I agree with mike l. on the pre-flop play.

To me calling down, means calling a bet on the river. But since you would have called him down, it's basically the same.

You guys sure defend your small blind more liberally than I do. And a helluva lot more liberally than I would against you guys.

Ni han, sir.

[James282]

I think this hand has more content than you originally stated. It's a real window into the way experts think, IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
I have Q4o. I call with the intention of calling down[with Q high]

[/ QUOTE ]
Not something many of us consider, even when playing against people we believe to be experts.
-James

[M2d]

Not that I'm at this level, but wouldn't an expert be one of the only players you'd make this play against? Especially one whose game you know well.

[J_V]

[ QUOTE ]
but the A really lends itself to a lot of multi-level posturing should anyone be in the mood for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whenever I get in the mood, someone busts out something unthinkable (like 88), and I'm left w/ my zelong dong out in the wind.

[James282]

Yes, that was my point.
-James

[mike l.]

"To me calling down, means calling a bet on the river. But since you would have called him down, it's basically the same."

you know what though, it's not. one more reason for clark NOT to call down here is because coilean will oftentimes recognize he's getting called down and give up. so you dont even gain the extra big bet all that often. but you do get to call the times coilean randomly pairs up or has the weird nuts or the flush or K high or whatever. double yuck.

a year ago i wouldve loved this play and the line clark took. right about now im hating it so so much.