Omaha/8 tournament advice

[chaos]

I normally play Omaha/8 in cash games up to $10/20. I play a pretty tight game. In a full game I usually wait to do most of my raising on the flop or the turn. My strategy has worked out well as I am a long-term winner at the game.

Next week I am going to take a shot at the WSOP $1500 buy in limit Omaha/8 event. Any suggestions on adjusting my game for a tournament.

[iblucky4u2]

Chaos

First - thanks for all your great posts - they have given me lots to think about and have definately improved my game.

As for the tournament play:
1 - check out the tournement advice here on 2+2 - there are some excellent posts - most for NL HE but lots that can be transfered, esplecially in later stages when blinds get large enough to simulate NL.
2 - Play tight early - you will find lots of maniacs trying to build large stacks early. They will give those chips back later!
3 - Loosen up later - but only with position &/or proper odds.
4 - If you have a close call to play or not, think scoop! Scoop hands are more valuable in tournament play (IMHO)
5 - High hands play better against large fields - so be cautious with high hands especially at tight table.
6 - In later stages, be careful of getting 1/4'ed with lows. This can cost lots of chips - even with the nut. Also be careful with draws - make sure you are getting proper odds.

Good luck - I want to read your post about the hand you won the bracelet on rather than the hand you were knocked out on.

[iblucky4u2]

See 1 table tournaments-sng 10+1 outline. Excellent advice - as a starting oint. You will need to vary the parameters based on your ability and reads

[MilesDavis]

Never played in a WSOP tournament, so I can't give specific advice. But I would bet that a lot of flops are going to be seen shorthanded. Hopefully you have played in tighter games and therefore have some experience with this tigher more agressive play.

I personally have always tried to play in as big a Omaha game as my bankroll would allow. Multiple, even weekly experiences of playing against an entire table of solid to very good Omaha players can not be over estimated.

I have learned a lot from the posts here on how hands play differently short handed. Checking out some of those posts might be a start.

Good luck by the way. Hope you cash your first time. Either way I (along with others) would enjoy hearing about your WSOP experience.

[Iceman]

[ QUOTE ]

As for the tournament play:
1 - check out the tournement advice here on 2+2 - there are some excellent posts - most for NL HE but lots that can be transfered, esplecially in later stages when blinds get large enough to simulate NL.

[/ QUOTE ]
An important difference between holdem and Omaha-8 in high-blind situations is that Omaha-8 hands run much closer in value in 2-3 handed pots than holdem hands. With a good chance to steal you should fire away a larger fraction of the time than in holdem, since it's not a disaster if you're called or raised. Waiting for premium hands will get you blinded off in Omaha.

[ QUOTE ]
2 - Play tight early - you will find lots of maniacs trying to build large stacks early. They will give those chips back later!

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. Don't gamble it up early - the risks outweigh the rewards. The only exception is in huge multitable tournaments where only a tiny fraction of the field get paid - then a moderate rate of stack growth is not enough.
[ QUOTE ]
3 - Loosen up later - but only with position &/or proper odds.

[/ QUOTE ]
Position is huge in shorthanded pots against predictable players, and make sure you understand how the hand values change in those spots. Something like AK54 is quite good when you're heads-up.
[ QUOTE ]
4 - If you have a close call to play or not, think scoop! Scoop hands are more valuable in tournament play (IMHO)

[/ QUOTE ]
In loose ring games, you can get loads of action on one-way hands, and that often makes them profitable. Tournament play is almost always tighter than that, and so one-way hands go way down in value when at most you'll have 3-4 players later in the hand.
[ QUOTE ]
5 - High hands play better against large fields - so be cautious with high hands especially at tight table.

[/ QUOTE ]
High DRAWING hands play better against large fields - hands like KK or QQ with nothing else. They will generally be money-losing at a tight table. Some high hands play well shorthanded, like four unpaired broadway cards. A2xy and A3xy also prefer large fields unless xy are a strong high combination, so at full tables you should reconsider whether you want to raise with them preflop as opposed to limping in and encouraging more callers.
[ QUOTE ]
6 - In later stages, be careful of getting 1/4'ed with lows. This can cost lots of chips - even with the nut. Also be careful with draws - make sure you are getting proper odds.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes - in loose games you almost always have drawing odds for reasonable draws, while this is often not the case in tight games. Many players who only play loose games normally still make the same calls in tight games or tournament play - and that is a major error.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Next week I am going to take a shot at the WSOP $1500 buy in limit Omaha/8 event.

[/ QUOTE ]
-
Chaos - Sounds great! I'll be rooting for you.
-
[ QUOTE ]
Any suggestions on adjusting my game for a tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]
-
Your tight game should hold you in good stead. But be aware that play in tournaments is quite different from ring game play.
-
There are basically two ways to play tournaments: (1) play to come in first. (2) play to make the final table. That's an exaggeration, but you need to have a plan and thinking along those lines may help you develop your overall strategy.
-
Your natural tight style, in my humble opinion, is better adapted to playing to make the final table. And since this is your first world series, that's what I advise you to do. Basically to do that, you play to survive - the idea is a chip lost is worth more than a chip won. So you do your best to avoid gambling situations.
-
Many of your opponents will be primarily tournament players rather than primarily Omaha-8 players. They can play Omaha-8, but they probably have better tournament skills than Omaha-8 skills. Some of them approach the game as though they were playing Texas hold 'em. You have to stay alert and recognize who's who. What I mean is everybody plays a bit differently and you have to recognise these individual differences and use them to your advantage. That's true in a ring game too, but in a big time Omaha-8 tournament, many of your opponents play a different style of game than your ring game opponents. In other words, there are more variables.
-
It's difficult to say, ahead of time, what you will be up against. You may have the misfortune to start at a table with a number of extremely aggressive players. Some of these guys seem to want to gamble, apparetnly with the goal of becoming the chip leader - and if they can't be the chip leader, then nothing else will do. They don't seem to care much if they go down in flames. They're not maniacs, because they fold more hands than they play - and they're very unpredictable because they can suddenly change gears and play conservatively - but when they enter a hand it will usually be with the gas pedal to the floor all the way to the river.
-
You want to stay out of the way of these chips burners as much as possible - and have a solid hand when it isn't possible. Just bide your time and hope that they get moved to another table, you get moved to another table, or your table is broken and everybody gets moved to other tables. Alas, when you get to the final table, you have to confront these players - and then you're either going to get rich or be on the rail - but you can't play like a wimp at the final table - although if your goal is to make the final table (as I think your goal should be), sometimes you should play like a wimp (depending) along the way to the final table, especially immediately before it when there are eleven or twelve of you and only ten will make the cut.
-
At such an extremely aggressive table, everyone who enters a pot,, including you - believe it or not, will enter the action with a pre-flop raise, and there will be none, one or maybe two opponents who see the flop with them. Drawing hands obviously go way down in value in this situation, because you won't have any (or many) customers to pay you off when you make your draw.
-
There's a big difference in the average style of play in a cheapo-re-buy tournament and a major event. Even so, I advise you to get some Omaha-8 tournament playing experience under your belt before entering the big one. Several Las Vegas casinos have weekly cheapo-re-buy Omaha-8 tournaments. They won't be the same as the big one, especially for the first round, but you'll get a feel for what happens, and I'm not sure there's a great deal of difference when you get to the final table. At the final table, the play tends to be very aggressive.
-
I agree with what iblucky4u2 has written. Good advice there for you. Let me add a bit to several of iblucky4u2's points.
-
[ QUOTE ]
Play tight early - you will find lots of maniacs trying to build large stacks early. They will give those chips back later!

[/ QUOTE ]
-
I agree. And you have to somehow dodge those who want to gamble when you don't. However, and take this with a grain of salt, I think you have to generally defend your big blind, perhaps even with a re-raise, at least for the first several rounds, just to get the point across that your big blind is not easily stolen.
-
[ QUOTE ]
If you have a close call to play or not, think scoop!

[/ QUOTE ]
-
Sound advice. If, after the flop, the battle gets down to one-on-one, which it often does, there will be times when you'll have to put a large portion of your own chips at risk. When you're only playing to win half the pot, you basically are playing to break even. You want to put the other guy in that position, rather than vice versa.
-
[ QUOTE ]
High hands play better against large fields - so be cautious with high hands especially at tight table.

[/ QUOTE ]
-
Amen! And especially with high drawing type hands, like KQJT. You, the defender of four coordinated cards, may disagree with me, but I like hands of the type AA23, AA35, A2QQ or A3KK for this type of play - some good low potential with a high pair - I think these type hands do very well one-on-one.
-
[ QUOTE ]
In later stages, be careful of getting 1/4'ed with lows. This can cost lots of chips - even with the nut. Also be careful with draws - make sure you are getting proper odds.

[/ QUOTE ]
-
And also high straights. You like hands with four cards ten or better? Well, and this is probably not news for you, so do your opponents!
-
Just my opinion. At any rate, the best of luck to you.
-
Buzz

[DPCondit]

This isn't your first Omaha/8 tournament is it?

Anyways, seems like you're getting good advice. Just to reiterate what others have already said, when the game gets tight, make sure you are getting good odds. Obviously, paired aces go up in value, draws go down in value.

Good luck at the WSOP, I'll be rooting for you, although I won't actually see it.

Good luck,
Don

[chaos]

Thanks for all of the advice, guys.

I don’t usually play tournaments, preferring cash games because of the much lower variance. My total tournament experience is limited to a couple of dozen small weekly or daily tournaments over the years. I only played one tournament in 2003. It was NL Hold ’Em and I made the money, finishing 5th in a field of 70.

Only once have I played in an Omaha/8 tournament. That was at Lucky Chances about six or seven years ago. (My Omaha/8 game was not very good back then.) If they are offering any Omaha/8 satellites I plan on playing them for the experience of playing Omaha/8 under tournament conditions.

I’ll let you know how it went when I get back.

[Tosh]

Being a good cash game player will certainly help but it'd be a good idea to get general tournament practice in beforehand IMO.

Good luck

[iblucky4u2]

There used to be a weekly O/8 Tourney at Lucky Chance normally had 5-7 tables. There is also a daytime tourney in the east bay.

[chaos]

I've been living in NYC the past few years.

[iblucky4u2]

As a NYer who left many years ago, I'm sorry to hear that u r in NYC /images/graemlins/grin.gif

U mentioned you had played in tourney in Lucky Chances so I thought you were on the left coast.

In case I get to visit, where do you play your ring games?