Two hands from 10/20 Borgata

[MaxPower]

I'd appreciate your feedback on these two hands.

These hands were from 2 different 10/20 games at the Borgata.

Hand 1

This game was loose and passive. There was hardly any pre-flop raising.

UTG and Button were the key players in this hand.

UTG was very loose and passive. One hand I played against him, I raised the turn with top pair, He called. The board paired 2s on the river, he check-called and showed the nut straight. So he wasn't very aggressive. He also took an extremely long time to act when it was his turn.

Button was the classic calling station.

UTG limps, 3 more limpers, I call with A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, MP player (very tight player) limps, Button Limps, BB checks.

Flop: 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Checked to me, I bet, MP calls, Button calls, folded to UTG who calls, one other guy calls.

Turn J /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to me, I check, checked around.

River 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Now UTG stares at the board for a long time. He reaches for his chips as though he is about to bet, but then checks (it looked like he was acting). Checked to me, I bet, button calls, UTG check-raises, I muck, button calls.


Hand 2

A loose table, but a little more aggressive.

UTG+1 was new to the table. He was playing a lot of hands and raising pre-flop frequently. Every hand he raised pre-flop and showed down was reasonable (AK, AQ, etc.)

UTG+2 was a very solid player.

MP1 was a loose passive player who was winning a lot and became LAG. Everyone else involved in the hand was pretty loose passive.

UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 3-bets, 3 cold-callers to me, I cap it on the button with QQ, BB calls, everyone else calls.

Flop: J /images/graemlins/heart.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Checked to me, I bet, everyone calls.

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Checked to me, I check (I have no spade).

River 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

UTG+1 bets, I call everyone else folds.

[Nightwish]

Hand 1: Your flop bet is certainly not a value bet, and you have no chance of buying the pot, so why did you bet? Your river bet is very -EV.

Hand 2: Bad beat story.

[James Boston]

Hand 1 seems OK to me. On hand 2, I'd go ahead and bet the turn. You might be up against a made flush, but you could get away from that. This is a situation where I don't think you want to give a free card. You're more likely, at this point, to be up against a flush draw than a made flush.

[tipperdog]

Not at all fond of the river bet on hand 1. Did you consider this a value bet? What worse hand would possibly call?

Hand 2 is tougher, with a thoroughly ugly board for QQ. I can see the argument for betting the turn, but if it were me, I'd probably check as you did on the turn, and check-call the river. If your QQ holds up, be very grateful.

[elysium]

hi max
hand 2) on the river, you should have checked. this is a horrible environment for what you had. now yes, you hear about great players who make great plays with their under-pair to the board pair. however, some real incredibly intricate chip is going on in these under-pair to board pair situations. for example; when the board pair gets over-carded, your under-pair drops off the chart. and no, a 4 coming off somewhere in this hand won't make someone else a stronger hand, but that's not an issue yet. the first thing you must do is get this heads up, which you did a good job of at least trying to do on the turn, although at that point this thing is pretty much over in spite of what it seems like it is. also, hitting the A may have you against a higher two pair without your call closing the action. the J over-card takes away from the A. finally, on the river, you should ask, 'if i check and this gets checked down, will i win the showdown?'. if the answer to that question is yes, then bet. it's not 'yes' here. and you've got all those others in there. that's what i really hate about this situation.

yes, i see that the turn got checked around. i confused the first hand's turn action with this one. you checked this turn around? that's o.k. too. that's fine. the only thing though, i think it would have better to bet the turn. you would like to drive out slightly more than saving the bet only because you do have the A and on the turn you still have 5 outs. and of course you have been checked to. the problem with that though is that you won't likely get heads up. so, whether you bet or check, it doesn't matter. there's not a player on the face of the earth who could say that either betting or checking is correct. i like the bet, but that could be wrong. if you had the 8 and got checked to, it's a definate bet. always. if your call closed the action, since the pre-flop was raised, you would call. however, you wouldn't call a bet to you on the turn unless you were certain you wouldn't be raised. also, if you were losing, then betting the turn is not that great an idea. actually, i like the check. me though, eh i'd bet. just to be stupid.

wait, hand 2) is hand 1)

hand 2) ok, you have QQ. no, no. you don't cap. very bad. that's exactly how not to do it. see, look at the flop. capping the pre-flop is a huge error. hand 2) is botched start to finish. it's terrible. i can't....that's all i can take. what do you think? money grows on trees? you're gambling. you're going to lose a lot of money. what is this? 10/ 20 ! whew. well, you're losing 500 dollars every session. as a gamble, there is hardly a more volitile, if that's how you spell it, no, volatile situation than hold em (little webster's). you're like a pro boxer who climbs into the ring against a pro fake wrestler, and finally realizes, after it's too late, that the guy might be a fake, but he's really 6'9'' and 450 pounds, as you fly airbourne over the spectators. you will not beat the players you're currently taking on. they will stomp you. really. you need to bingo consolidate and target a lower limit. study. and stay away from the game your playing in now. you won't get your money back in that one. you're a fish.