Party's $25 NL vs. $50 NL

[Ben]

Hi all-

I've been beating Party's $25 NL tables at 14BB/100 for 5,000 hands.

I realize this is a very small sample-size, so I'm wondering if it would be premature to move up to the $50 NL tables.

5,000 hands is nothing, but I'm fairly confident in my play. And while I don't think I can maintain the winrate I'm currently enjoying, I still believe I'm a solid, winning player:

VP$IP: 18%, Went to SD: 16%, Won $ at SD: 59%

Do I need to play more hands to get more accurate stats before moving up?

Are the $50 NL tables that much tougher than the $25s?

Would it be foolish to move up with only 12 buy-ins?

Any input would be appreciated.

-Ben

[turnipmonster]

just take shots at the game when it looks good (i.e. big pots). there are occasionally non terrible players in the 50s, but never more than 1 or 2. in my experience, only the 100s are a little tougher. the 25 and the 50s play pretty much the same.

--turnipmonster

[benjdm]

14BB/100 is pretty huge. I think you're fine with 10x buyins to try moving up. Turnip, I respectfully disagree with you about the amount of difference between $50 and $25. I know after I played for a while on the $50, I found the $25 tables full of SIGNIFICANTLY worse players than the $50. In my very limited experience on the $100 tables, I find them very close to the $50 tables, but I waited until I had 10x buy ins to attempt moving up. It's as much psychological as anything, you have to be able to bet the amounts without getting scared because it's 2x the money. FWIW, I am a mere +6.5 BB/100 hands on the $50 with 8000 hands, though I continue to improve. 800 hands of $100 tables are running considerably better.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
I know after I played for a while on the $50, I found the $25 tables full of SIGNIFICANTLY worse players than the $50.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does the Party $25 NL compare to players at limit games at Party? What limit would have a comparable skill level? How do the $25 NL players compare to SnG players at Party? thanks in advance for any help.

(This seems to be turning into a "ben" thread.)

[jdl22]

I recently moved up from NL25 all the way to NL100. I decided to give the 100 a shot but to drop down again if I lost more than 250 (2 buy ins plus a couple rebuy fillups). I did this because I was unsure of my ability to beat this level and because I wasn't properly rolled for it (I only had a little over 12 buy ins at that level).

I have been quite successful, beating the NL100 at basically the same rate I had with the NL25. I think this is because of small sample size and a few really bad plays by some opponents. I can't speak for the NL50 because I jumped right up to 100 but I would guess that it's somewhere in between what you're seeing and the NL100 I'm about to describe. I have decided for the time being to play the full ring games because I am having trouble adjusting to the 6 max and I am happy with my win rate at the full tables.

The play is often weak tight. There tend to be 2 or 3 tight passive guys, 3 or 4 loose passive guys, a couple lags, and 2-3 of us tight aggressive players. There are some tables where nobody is aggressive. When I'm at such a table I leave unless I have a big stack in which case I wait awhile for a LAG to show up. The good thing is that when a maniac or very LAG player shows up that tends to get the others out of their shells. There tend to be much fewer people seeing the flop. The norm tends to be about 4 or 5 instead of the usual 7 or 8 at the NL25 level. This results in a few things, firstly you have to play tighter than you can get away with in the NL25. Having said that you have to play much more aggressively in order to have your good hands paid off. A pot sized bet on the flop by the button often takes down the pot. This makes semibluffing an excellent play, which as I said is necesary to get your big hands paid off since so many players are weak-tight unless it appears that you bluff a lot they tend not to pay you.

Basically all of this adds up to play at this level being a lot more typical of that written about in the books you read. There are still a lot of bad players waiting to pay you off there are just fewer of them at this level so you have to be more patient. Also at this level using the export notes pokertracker feature or somehow remembering players is important because there is much more variety in player types.

I think you will win less ratewise at these tables, but your game and reading ability will improve much more rapidly and you will make more money overall. Having read your posts here for some time I would advise you to wait until you no longer play weak-tight to move up. The reason I say that is that any time you move up you will be both weaker and tighter naturally because of the quantity of money at stake. It takes a bit of time to adjust to making pot sized bets of $100 and winning (and losing) pots that are more than half your rent check. During this adjustment period you will be playing a little "scared money" which usually means weaker than usual. I don't know if for you that would happen just moving up to the NL50 level or not, but I would assume so if you moved up to the 100.

Good luck, keep us updated on your progress.

[MVicuna]

Hi,

I've only been using PokerTracker for about a week and have around 2000 in it from $1BB on party. 5k is around a 100 hours I should think is enough to define your play.

The play is still 'bad', but in different ways. You will run into 1-2 good players, but hey are easy to spot and just be carefull in pots with them.

Your VPIP is low and your SD is low, I'm thinking your playing very tight. You Win$SD number is about right. You will still make money playing this way, just not as much. People wont call PF raises as much at $1BB as they do at $.5BB. They don't pay off draws as often and they fold a lot more on scarey boards. When people start calling your check-raise on paired flops and you get to showdown and you still win your 'image' and the skill is just right. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

You can move up with as little as 500xBB and with your style you should be ok.

MarkV.