Evaluate my turn play

[Ralph Wiggum]

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(6 players) </font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.
I'm thinking the raise disguises my hand &amp; possible free card. Also it may clean up my ace outs.

Turn: (7 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, SB folds, UTG calls.
Is this good aggression on the turn? I was still thinking raise in order to clean up any Ace outs. But if the Ace did hit, then I probably still wouldn't bet the river. Was this a smart raise?

River: (13 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.
CO was all-in, so I had to call his raise.

Final Pot: 16 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 16 BB, between Hero and CO.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by Hero (16 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows As 2s (flush, ace high).
CO shows Js 7s (flush, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins 16 BB. </font>

[thirddan]

my first thought was not to raise the flop since you make everyone call two cold, but since that didn't seem to stop anyone from playing raising could be ok...Im not crazy about raising the turn either, you picked up some straight outs, but your A outs are no good since they make someone with a K a straight...

[bisonbison]

I think you should just call. The man's betting into you again on a scary board, so i doubt that one pair's gonna win you much in any case.

You're golden if you hit a king or a non-pairing spade, but I'd want the rest of the team along for the ride as well.

[Ralph Wiggum]

So I guess the recommended play is to call the flop &amp; turn here. Whenever I have a nice draw, I guess I have a tendency to want to disguise that it is a draw, so I often raise and bet with my draws. I figure I can win with the semi-bluff, but I realize I shouldn't have on this turn (and maybe flop also).

[bisonbison]

I don't think your flop raise is bad. I'd like it better if you had two overcards, or bottom pair and the flush draw or somesuch, but it's not a bad idea to be more aggressive.

I just think your turn raise is unlikely to clear up any real outs, and you'd rather have some more people around to pay you off if your flush hits.

[thirddan]

i only said your flop raise could be bad because you will lose customers if they decided to fold since you are making them call two cold, if there were callers trapped between the bettor and you then raising would be a very good idea, but your position relative to the bettor is not very good...

Also, disguising your hand should not be a big factor in making decisions at this limit, as most players arent paying attention...

[Glurfle]

I like the flop raise for the reasons you stated, but not the turn raise. If he's got a straight/set/two pair you've got a good chance of being 3-bet, and you won't like that at all.

[dfscott]

I see the flop raise more as a value bet than for any deceptive value. In any case, I think it's the right play. I would've just called the turn.

[JDErickson]

I would have just called the flop bet and hoped for a raise after me so I could 3 bet or cap.

I would just call the turn bet.

Jim

[StellarWind]

The flop raise is fine because the five good things it does more than compensate for the cost of the bet and lost customers:

1. Brings extra money into the pot (value).
2. Provides a chance for a free card.
3. Strengthens your ace outs a little.
4. Makes the flush somewhat less obvious when you hit it on the turn.
5. Sometimes you get heads up with UTG and win unimproved because he's drawing too.

The turn raise is bad. Considering the cost of the bet, the great risk of a reraise, and the potential for lost overcalls and river action, I think the negative EV is huge.

[CardCuda]

Hmmm...

UTG has ya beat here, I don't like the turn raise, but you do have the added K out, still don't like it much. If I were UTG i'd a three bet ya on the turn and really made ya pay for that flush, but that's just me. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

It worked this time but I wouldn't make it a habit.

[vipchump]

What is your take on the Ax suited preflop call? I've recently begun folding this from EP and MP. I will play Axs from CO or the button for one bet preflop, but seems to me like the only out you have is the flush.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
What is your take on the Ax suited preflop call? I've recently begun folding this from EP and MP. I will play Axs from CO or the button for one bet preflop, but seems to me like the only out you have is the flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ralph's call is alright. Personally I like more than two limpers, though. There are a number of pretty strong players on these forums who will advocate A-x suited in any position if the game is both loose and passive.

I'm not one of them though. I think your approach is better, play it late, and only when the conditions are right. The flushes and miracle flops are rare enough that it costs you plenty to try for them, I think playing for them when you don't know you are going to have the conditions is a potentially costly leak over time.

Plus position is something that's greatly underappreciated by most micro players. And its really nice to have good position if, for example, you hit your ace instead of a flush...and if you hit your flush, to get the most money in the pot.

But like I say, there are some pretty good players who feel otherwise about A-x suited.

--Zetack

[RcrdBoy]

I think playing it for one bet under the right circumstances is fine, but you are playing it for the flush value. As long as you have 4 plus limpers you'll have the odds to draw (only need around 5 to 1 pot odds to call).

Mike