Dealers commenting on the big games at Mirage

[barrett]

I was at the Mirage a few days ago and a common theme among all the dealers was the dread in dealing the big games that had moved there because of the Bellagio power outage.

The common complaint was that the big game players didn't tip the dealers. My favorite quote was "I just dealt Johnny Chan a $93,000 pot and he didn't tip one dollar!"

I found this pretty interesting - I wouldn't expect players to tip more just because they are playing ultra-high stakes but you'd think they would at least tip the standard $1 per pot since the dealers depend on this income.

The dealers had all kinds of colorful ways to describe the big game players.

[onegymrat]

Hi Barrett,

That's odd because I get the same type of comments here in LA. I play low-limit stuff, but the dealers comment on how the mid-limit players, 15-30 and up, do not tip at all. While the freaky low-limit guys, not me, will tip $3-$4 dollars for a $80 pot. Go figure.

[LetsRock]

That's so hard to believe. I guess when you start depending on your poker earnings, you get pretty cheap with stuff like tipping.

OF course, I imagine, it's a little harder to tip a dollar or two when you're playing with $5 (or $20 or $100) chips, but you sure think the players would be toking every shify or something - just rude.

Yet another example of how the "less fortunate" people do more than their share of supporting public "costs". Very annoying.

[Riverman]

Some high limjit players tip at the end of each half hour, to both speed up the game and evaluaqte based upon the entire performance.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Some high limjit players tip at the end of each half hour, to both speed up the game and evaluaqte based upon the entire performance.



[/ QUOTE ]
I read someone on here a while back who did this. Actually makes sense to me. Kinda silly to tip when dealer pushes you a pot...would be equivilent to giving the waitress a quarter every time she fills your cup of coffee.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Some high limjit players tip at the end of each half hour, to both speed up the game and evaluaqte based upon the entire performance.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what me and my opponent did when playing headsup 40-80 for about 3 hours the other day. There's really no other way to do it that is both fair to the dealer and to us.

[snakehead]

the more I play, the fewer reasons I find to tip dealers. but one of the reasons the high limit guys don't tip is that they don't have any small change. in chan's game, the smallest chip might be $500 or $1000. no dealer is prepared to give change for chips that large. most of them can't even break a $100 chip.

[andyfox]

In the mid-limit games at Commerce, virtually 100% of the players tip.

[Sincere]

[ QUOTE ]
"I just dealt Johnny Chan a $93,000 pot and he didn't tip one dollar!"


[/ QUOTE ]

Guys like that are just @ssholes, Johnny included (if thats true). I dont expect anyone to tip outrageous, but in a $93,000 dollar pot, whats 5 bucks? Wonder what Mr Chan would do if all the dealers went on strike? Play online? He'd get crushed, unless he played Party. But either way, online doesnt offer the limits he wants to play.

[slavic]

Around the country almost all mid limit players tip. What they don't do is tip in the same lavish amounts that low-limit players do. Tipping $2 to $5 a pot is foolish but routine in many 4-8 games.

[Snow]

Maybe a bit off topic...

Why is there a culture of tipping the dealer at each hand?

The dealear should be paid by the house in my opinion and if you think the dealer did a extra good job then you tip him/her at the end of the session. This way you reward good dealers and there are no "issues" with how much to tip.

[Losing all]

Whats an extra good job? Take you around back and give you a BJ?

[Losing all]

Seriously though, I can't imagine Chan or whoever sitting down at a 1000-2000 without a few $1 in their pocket. You know, just to be a decent human being.

[youtalkfunny]

I'm sure they're not paying the rake with those $500 chips.

I'm equally sure the house isn't spreading the game for free.

[RydenStoompala]

I see a pile of horsepoop here. I've played two over from Chan (because I wont be in that league for a few years) and was told that he and his opponents tipped BIG on dealer changes, depending of course on how they were doing. The big pros know how dealers depend on the income and they tend to be generous when they are winning. If the Mirage guy got nothing it's because Chan's 93 K pot got him halfway back to nowhere. He could have been stuck 200k and not paying much attention to the dealer.

I play mid limits constantly and have only seen a few really tight players who wont tip. It's rare, not common. Sometimes, when three or four of us are clearing out visitor after visitor, the dealers fight for the table because they know we are making great money and we take care of them.

Contrary to some people's beliefs, most mid limit players are not a**holes. We'll check raise our own mothers, but we know how to treat people.

[barrett]

It may be horse poop but this was a consistent theme over 3 days at the Mirage. I'm not trying to stir anything up here - just simply reporting what I heard/learned during my latest Vegas trip.

[andyfox]

More than a few dealers make more money on extracurricular activities than dealing.

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]
Whats an extra good job? Take you around back and give you a BJ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I'd go over 12% for that.

[HDPM]

That just depends so much on the dealer. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Also, contrary to las vegas accepted custom, that would not be the time to ask the dealer to chop it.

[Slacker13]

[ QUOTE ]
The dealear should be paid by the house in my opinion

[/ QUOTE ]

They work on tips. I suppose your the guy who stiffs a waitress because she didn't serve you to your standards. I tip even when they do a poor job. I will give better dealers,waitresses/bartenders etc... a little more when warranted. These people get paid very little per hour and rely on tips, so TIP!

[Sincere]

Some people will never get it. Whats even worse are the people who go to a restraunt/bar with the intentions of giving the help a hard time. Some people actually get off on this I think. I never understood why anyone would be rude to someone that brings you your food. Just doesnt make sense. I think every person on earth should be legally required to work as a waiter/bar-tender, for 6 months.

[Losing all]

This reminds me of the old saying, "If someone is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, they are not a nice person".

[Homer]

Some people will never get it. Whats even worse are the people who go to a restraunt/bar with the intentions of giving the help a hard time. Some people actually get off on this I think. I never understood why anyone would be rude to someone that brings you your food. Just doesnt make sense. I think every person on earth should be legally required to work as a waiter/bar-tender, for 6 months.

I'm tired of hearing that everyone should work as a waiter or bartender for 6 months to gain some perspective. If you really want to gain some perspective, try working in the back of the restaurant as a dishwasher for 6 months. You'll get $5-6/hr, no tips, and will be working as hard as or harder than the waiters, doing work that is much more disgusting. Why don't these people receive tips? The whole tipping system is a friggin joke; it's completely arbitrary.

Recently, I've started tipping certain waiters nothing because I see them dicking around and talking to other waiters instead of bringing me my check when I ask for it. If they want to make more than the dishwashers, they better damn well perform their job to my satisfaction. I detest waiters who expect to be tipped for giving below-average service. They act as if they are an irreplacable commodity. Please.

I'm going to start stiffing waiters and giving my tip to the dishwashers for providing me with such clean plates. I'm going to start stiffing poker dealers and cocktail whores and tipping the people that walk around the casino floor cleaning up the trash.

-- Homer

[knifeandfork]

ok here is my take for ya. i have worked in service for 8 years now part time and full time. tip your waiter/bartender 15% and he wont deflate your tires, or go out of his way to give excellent service next time he sees you. 20% he will be happy probably remember you and give you good directions etc.25%(the cutoff for a GOOD tip) you will almost definitely be recalled on your next visit and receive excellent service. if 2 people go out for a decent meal receive good service tip 9 bucks on their 60 dollar meal that is ok i guess but for a mere 6 more dollars (75 instead of 69) you can make somebody happy and in return receive better service in the future. the bottom line is waiters make 2.13 an hour on average, bartenders and casino dealers about 5 bucks to the best of my knowledge. tip your server 20% or more, be generous, because if you can afford to eat/drink out you can afford a decent tip. and if you get bad service from a nice person tip 15%+ anyway. time based tipping of a dealer i think is better than pot based. only someone who is rude or unkind to you should be stiffed.cheap people suk nice people rule try it and see how you are treated when you return. ive stiffed two people in my life and average tipping 25%+ thanks for listening,
jason
ps the more i go to atlanitc city and vegas ill need to know standards for bellmen/valet etc at hotels/casinos is $5 ok for a low roller like me?

[CrackerZack]

When I worked at ponderosa in high school, we openly despised the waitresses. They did little to nothing, made about 10x as much as anyone working in the back and were tremendously obnoxious every time they came back to get something.

I like your idea about tipping the garbage collectors.

[Yeknom58]

Not tipping at all is a very short sited practice.

Unless you are POSITIVE the waitress/waiter doesn't share tips with the busboy/bartender/kitchen staff I think you should still tip a small amount. Then as you're leaving you should make a complaint with the manager about the poor service you recieved, that's a more constructive way to voice your criticism.

[Clarkmeister]

"ill need to know standards for bellmen/valet etc at hotels/casinos is $5 ok for a low roller like me?"

I usually tip $2 and don't get any evil looks. When I tip $5 it usually gets a very vocal "Thank You".

[MMMMMM]

Once after a truly nightmarish session at the Mirage, I gave the valet guy the very last money I had on my person, a handful of change from my pocket totaling about 80 cents. He took it and threw it into the water fountain while I watched. That was over 10 years ago and I don't think I have used valet since.

[Sincere]

You are a class act Homer.

[ QUOTE ]
They act as if they are an irreplacable commodity. Please.


[/ QUOTE ]

Try getting your food at a nice decent restruant without them. Try getting your drinks at the casino without the cocktail waitress. What are you going to do walk your ass up in the kitchen and get your own food. If you dont want to tip for service go eat at McDonalds.

[Sincere]

Its not that they are not a nice person. Just a dumb person. IMO. Dont mess with people that bring you your food.

[andyfox]

Maybe he didn't know it was the only money you had on you and thought giving him silver was insulting.

Then again, maybe he was a jerk.

[Losing all]

Did you pop off "tilt much?"

[itsmarty]

[ QUOTE ]
I gave the valet guy the very last money I had on my person, a handful of change from my pocket totaling about 80 cents. He took it and threw it into the water fountain while I watched. That was over 10 years ago and I don't think I have used valet since.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe he

a) had a bad experience when his pants, weighted down by change, headed south at an inopportune time, or

b) lost enough coins climbing in and out of cars that it was +EV to make a wish in the fountain.

I'd have at least considered that before humping through 10 years worth of parking garages.

Martin

[AJo Go All In]

you completely missed the point. he's saying that there is no shortage of waitresses. if one of them were to get fired, the management would have no problem quickly replacing them.

[Homer]

You are a class act Homer.

Thank you.

Try getting your food at a nice decent restruant without them.

Try getting a clean plate and a clean floor without the grunt workers in the back.

Try getting your drinks at the casino without the cocktail waitress.

Try getting a clean plate and a clean floor without the grunt workers in the back.

What are you going to do walk your ass up in the kitchen and get your own food. If you dont want to tip for service go eat at McDonalds.

Who said I don't want to tip for service? I don't want to, and don't tip for bad service. Maybe you should start tipping the people in the back for the service they are doing.

Congratulations on completely missing the point of my post. Gain some perspective.

-- Homer

[MicroBob]

i worked as a BJ dealer for the better part of the past year (before ditching it a couple of months ago...at least temporarily, because i was making more money clicking buttons at home).


what's interesting to me are the number of dealers who talk in the break-room about who's 'taking care of them' and who is 'not tipping a freaking dollar'. etc etc.

i find it so interesting because the tips are pooled amongst all the BJ dealers for each 2-week pay-check and the tip-rate is typically going to be roughly the same.

i worked for the lowest paying casino in the area (because i was brand new to dealing) and we made $5.50/hr base and anywhere from $8-$11 on top of that in tips (depending on whether it was a big holiday-weekend or slot-tournament or something). so total it would be $13 to $16 an hour.


i appreciated the players who tipped as they were clearly trying to show a gesture of gratitude for my work...and trying to get some good card-karma as well.
but i would much prefer a table of nice people (and non-smokers) who never tipped over a bunch of smoking-jerks who tipped every hand.
afterall, i was only getting about 1/100 of the money they were tipping and i had to share it with everyone else there (including some friends...and some other people who i perhaps didn't like so much).


why so many of the other dealers were so ga-ga over the tippers at their table is beyond me (if we got to keep our own tips it would be a different story of course).


i do remember the guy that didn't tip me when he won a $2350 hand on a straight-flush at 3-card poker (and i heard about the guy at our place who didn't tip at all after winning a 27K straight-flush hand on caribbean stud).

while i found it kind of strange that those guys wouldn't tip at all as is customary i really didn't care a whole lot.


btw, the word in this area is that poker-dealers do pretty well financially. on top of that, they get to sit down while they're dealing (even though they might throw out their shoulders trying to pull the bets from all sides of the table) and they get to keep their own tips of course.
$200 or more in a night is not at all uncommon for them. that's in the $1000/wk X 50 wks range which is an okay income (especially in this region).


even with all the standing involved with dealing (and the smoke, which i hate) i never looked at the BJ dealing job as being all that hard.
as homer alluded to, i've worked twice as hard for half the money in other jobs.
and, if poker doesn't work, i will be heading back there and won't be overly upset if it comes to that.


my girlfriend is a nurse at a hospital and pulls 12-hour shifts (or longer) dealing with death and puke and other gross stuff daily...and sometimes she has a very difficult time finding an opportunity to grab much to eat (if they're especially busy or short-staffed).
in the meanwhile, i would go out to my table, small-talk with mostly nice people for an hour and then get a 20-minute break where i would drink coffee and watch whatever game was on tv with fellow dealers.
then go out for another hour....and get another 20-minute break.
pretty easy money really if you ask me.


but, if i had to stay in it for 10 years or longer i would probably go nuts.
these guys have to deal with people blaming them for crappy cards day after day after day...and even when it's done in a joking manner it gets quite frustrating and annoying for some.

the last time i played live-poker i won a hand with AA and the lady i beat threw her cards at the dealer and cussed me and her out in some foreign language (i think).
what on earth did the dealer do to deserve that kind of hostility?? (and, for that matter, did the player think i did something wrong by winning with AA??)

yes, it comes with the territory (and they don't have to work that job if they dont want to), but i don't think it should HAVE to come with the territory. and you can go a long way towards counter-balancing whatever negativity they may have to encounter.
and actually, these are general rules for interacting with anyone i suppose.


my recommendations....just tip a buck or so, be polite, dont be obnoxious....plus, it's amazing how far a simple 'how are you doing' with a smile will go.

[BigEndian]

I'm not going to get into who should tip for what. I'd just like to point out that there are a lot of chips on the shoulder firing off in this thread - which is now de-railed I'll add.

And I've been the dishwasher, buss-boy, waiter, burger flipper, bathroom cleaner. So I think that gives me the leeway to say so.

- Jim

[Schaefer]

I work in a hotel in Seattle as a valet/bellman/doorman.

When people don't tip we think, "that sucks but maybe he has no money." It depends on what else they do or say. Apologies are nice when they are delivered sincerely. When people tip a handful of change we think, "this guy is pretty condescending and is insulting me."

I think you're better off not tipping and giving a sincere apology than digging out a handful of change. If you're that worried about a jerk valet then make sure you have a buck or 2 and avoid the drama. If I am caught in a situation where I have no $ to tip I feel real bad but I don't really care if the dumb valet wants to judge me based on this one time that I wasn't able to tip.

As I post this it is 5:30 AM and I am nearing the end of a graveyard bellman shift. It sucks working 11PM-7AM then going to school at 9:30. My delirious state is what caused me to type such a long response AND would probably cause me to throw a $0.80 cent tip into the fountain. The Oakland A's checked into the hotel today and I hope they get a horrible night's sleep and get swept by the M's. Eric Chavez' wife/girlfriend/who knows what is insanely hot. I wonder if I'll get in trouble for posting this. No one in this hotel cares about poker so they'll never know. I can feel myself going insane as I sit on graveyard. I ramble and ramble and ramble.

Schaefer

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

Dude, get some sleep.

[Jezebel]

Everytime I see a tipping thread all I can think of is the movie Resouvoir Dogs:

Mr. Pink: I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's [censored] up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government [censored] in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And as for this non-college bullshit I got two words for that: learn to fuckin' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big fuckin' surprise.

[Softrock]

My prediction is that you will do fine at poker given an obviously well-balanced view of the world. Thanks for a sane post and best of luck at the tables (poker that is).

[Homer]

I'm not going to get into who should tip for what. I'd just like to point out that there are a lot of chips on the shoulder firing off in this thread - which is now de-railed I'll add.

And I've been the dishwasher, buss-boy, waiter, burger flipper, bathroom cleaner. So I think that gives me the leeway to say so.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. All I'm doing is commenting on what I believe are injustices and perhaps getting a little too passionate about it. As for derailing the thread, well, that's the way threads go sometimes. I will stop now, though.

[Sincere]

[ QUOTE ]
Try getting a clean plate and a clean floor without the grunt workers in the back.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Congratulations on completely missing the point of my post. Gain some perspective.


[/ QUOTE ]

The people in the back make about 4x per/hr that servers make. Where is your perspective?

P.S. I have perspective on this issue. I have both worked in the back of a restruants and worked in the front. I will tell you honestly that working in the back is a lot easier, funner, and WHOLE lot LESS stressfull.

[Sincere]

There is a shortage on good waitresses. IMO. You cant just fire a good one and replace her with and bad one. Well, I guess you can, if you want your restraunt to suck.

[Homer]

The people in the back make about 4x per/hr that servers make. Where is your perspective?

The people who wash the dishes do not make 4x more than the servers. They make much, much less.

Perhaps you are playing a game with me and are referring to pre-tip salaries (i.e. - $2 versus $8).

P.S. I have perspective on this issue. I have both worked in the back of a restruants and worked in the front. I will tell you honestly that working in the back is a lot easier, funner, and WHOLE lot LESS stressfull.

I have as well, and I disagree 100%.

We will have to agree to disagree on your second point, but I still believe that:

1) The tipping system is arbitrary.

2) Many waiters do not work very hard, yet still expect to be tipped, while many other people work hard, receive low pay and never receive any tips.

Again, let me state that I have no problem tipping waiters who work hard. However, I have no problem stiffing waiters who do nothing to deserve a gratuity, because there are many people who work hard for low pay who never even have a chance to receive a tip. These people are still expected to work hard, though. One poster suggested that I leave a small tip (since a certain percentage of tips are passed down to busboys, etc, and they don't deserve to be stiffed) and express my dissatisfaction to the manager. Perhaps that is the best way to handle things.

-- Homer

[oddjob]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a shortage on good waitresses. IMO. You cant just fire a good one and replace her with and bad one. Well, I guess you can, if you want your restraunt to suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

perhaps there is a shortage of good waiters and waitresses, because everyone is expected to tip 15% regardless of how good the service was. i used to wait tables and it's not hard to do a good job. sometimes it's as easy as showing your customers a bit of respect, rather then treating them like a nuisance. but hell, i can totally see how someone would continue to do a crappy job, because there is no incentive to do a better one. they can always rely on people giving 15% at least.

i would agree with homer and say that sometimes i'd rather tip the people cleaning up then the people waiting tables.

i think this goes the same for dealing for sure. if you're a dealer and you do a crappy job, and you stil get a tip after every pot, then why would you ever care about doing a better job?

[MMMMMM]

"I'd have at least considered that before humping through 10 years worth of parking garages."

Well I never used the valet very often before this incident anyway so it wasn't that much of a change. Main reason is I don't like the wait. But on the few occasions I considered it afterwards, the galling image of that guy throwing my hard-saved change into the water fountain made me think twice;-) I can use the exercise anyway (as I'm sure most poker players can).

[daryn]

once again homer has it right.

[Sincere]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you are playing a game with me and are referring to pre-tip salaries (i.e. - $2 versus $8).


[/ QUOTE ]

Not really a game. But yes that is what I mean. The restraunt that I work at. Cooks make $18 per/hr, dishwashers make $10 per/hr, bus boys make $8 per/hr, and servers make $2.13 per/hr.

I work in both the front and back depending on the day and I can honestly say I enjoy working in the back more than in the front. Mainly because of the fact that you dont have to put up with customers and I think the work is easier. It can be pretty hard and super frustating when you are serving 5 or 6 tables with 4-8 people at them and are taking care of about 25 people at the same time and everyone of them wants something from you at the same time and they want it NOW. Its very hard for 1 person to take care of 25 people at the same time.

[ QUOTE ]
Many waiters do not work very hard, yet still expect to be tipped, while many other people work hard, receive low pay and never receive any tips.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes you are very right on that. Many waiter suck and are lazy which makes it that much more important to tip excellent waiters well. IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
Again, let me state that I have no problem tipping waiters who work hard. However, I have no problem stiffing waiters who do nothing to deserve a gratuity,

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this too. However I wouldnt go as far as stiffing. If I recieve good/decent service and the person is atleast trying I tip 25% sometimes more. If I get lousy service I still tip 10%. I feel that if you atleast get your food that person deserves a minimal tip, then I'll bitch to managment if I feel like it.

[Losing all]

Nevermind "I don't tip" cough up your buck like everyone else, ya cheap basturd.

[t_petrosian]

Well, if you want to change the whole system, try to do it. However, Homer, the obvious flaw in your approach is that those in the wait staff make $2.13 per hour. Dishwashers make $7 per hour. Any idiot can wash dishes (I know...I did this in high school), but not any idiot can wait on customers and represent the restaurant well. Can any idiot run food from the kitchen to tables? Sure...but we've all been served by good waiters, mediocre waiters and crappy ones. The fact is, for $2.13 per hour, even the crappy ones probably should get some amount of money from you. Good waiters are worth their weight in gold - but your post seems to indicate that you appreciate good service, so you don't need me to lecture you here.

In summary, in an economically efficient system (be it a restaurant or the US economy in general), money tends to flow to those deserving it. That good waiters can make $80,000 per year, and wait staff in general will make more than dishwashers essentially happens because it is a more skilled job. If you believe, Homer, in a system where those who work harder (more physical exertion and/or time spent dealing with trash) should be earning on a level with those of better, more marketable skillsets, then I recommend you do a thorough study of the rise and fall of the Soviet system.

[MrFroggyX]

Move to Europe.
It's not allowed to tip the dealers. /images/graemlins/grin.gif (At least not in Sweden)

And I don't understand why you still have your crappy tip "system".. I mean if you must tip at least 5%-15% when you use another person’s service.. Why can't they make the price 5%-15% higher instead???

Here in Sweden you don't normally tip.. But you can do it if you want. And when you do it people gets really happy!

But I guess its hard for a hole country to change a system that have been around forever..

[Snow]

Agree with you totally.

[Joe Tall]

tipping the people that walk around the casino floor cleaning up the trash.

I regularly do this.

You'd be surprised on how it has benefitted as I can get a little extra service as if something is spilled or I need something from the cafeteria that the waitress has forgotten. After tipping a few of the clean up staff, they go out of their way for you.

Peace,
Joe Tall