US SNG Results

[DrPhysic]

Ok, I'll post 'em. And then post a hand history to demonstrate how you get to be 17th.

1: Toro85 (Worcester), $72.00 (40%)
2: jpg777 (Ballston Spa), $54.00 (30%)
3: codewarrior (Mentor), $36.00 (20%)
4: NotMitch (Somerville), $18.00 (10%)
5: Wadd (Winona),
6: sawil (lancaster),
7: Bubbagump (Milford),
8: Husker66 (Fort Worth),
9: thomastem (Marengo),
10: SimonDiamond (Redditch),
11: heyrocker (Chicago),
12: MobyDick (København),
13: Shub314 (Victoria),
14: ClemsonAce (Lexington),
15: Stagemusic (Taylorville),
16: DaEvictor (Bellevue),
17: DrPhysic (San Antonio),
18: FloppedFlush (Alexandria

Congrats to Toro85.
I think we had 100% 2+2 last night. Good participation guys, I hope all had fun.

Doc /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[William]

Ok, I'll post 'em. And then post a hand history to demonstrate how you get to be 17th.

It's already been posted and the answer is poor play /images/graemlins/grin.gif Much better to end 12th, he he

William /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[DrPhysic]

I won't pretend that I played well last night, but here's a really stupid example. It's the hand that Simon knocked me out 17th.

PokerStars Game #389182513: Tournament #1416734, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2004/04/15 - 21:52:46 (ET)
Table '1416734 2' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: DrPhysic (920 in chips)
Seat 2: sawil (1355 in chips)
Seat 3: Bubbagump (2665 in chips)
Seat 4: Stagemusic (1105 in chips)
Seat 5: thomastem (850 in chips)
Seat 6: heyrocker (1430 in chips)
Seat 7: codewarrior (1385 in chips)
Seat 8: SimonDiamond (1710 in chips)
Seat 9: Shub314 (2080 in chips)
Shub314: posts small blind 15
DrPhysic: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DrPhysic [As 2d]
sawil: calls 30
Bubbagump: folds
Stagemusic: folds
thomastem: folds
heyrocker: folds
codewarrior: calls 30
SimonDiamond: calls 30
Shub314: calls 15
DrPhysic: checks
*** FLOP *** [4d 7h Ad]
Shub314: checks
DrPhysic: bets 90
sawil: folds
codewarrior: folds
SimonDiamond: calls 90
Shub314: folds
*** TURN *** [4d 7h Ad] [2c]
DrPhysic: bets 240
SimonDiamond: calls 240
*** RIVER *** [4d 7h Ad 2c] [Kd]
DrPhysic: bets 560 and is all-in
SimonDiamond: calls 560
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DrPhysic: shows [As 2d] (two pair, Aces and Deuces)
SimonDiamond: shows [Td Jd] (a flush, Ace high)
SimonDiamond collected 1930 from pot
SimonDiamond said, "gg"
heyrocker said, "ouch"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1930 | Rake 0
Board [4d 7h Ad 2c Kd]
Seat 1: DrPhysic (big blind) showed [As 2d] and lost with two pair, Aces and Deuces
Seat 2: sawil folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Bubbagump folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Stagemusic folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: thomastem folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: heyrocker folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: codewarrior folded on the Flop
Seat 8: SimonDiamond (button) showed [Td Jd] and won (1930) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 9: Shub314 (small blind) folded on the Flop


Ok, so what's so stupid? I just got beat, right?

Absolutely not. I beat myself. On the turn, I had AA22 and in all probability had the best hand at the table. There was T330 in the pot. I put in a chickens**t post oak bet of T240. Simon called. We all know Simon is an aggressive player, but... If I had pushed instead of making the less than pot size bet, there is no way Simon would have had the pot odds to draw to the flush. Actually, he didn't have the pot odds as it was, but like I said we know he's aggressive.

If I PUSH All-In on the turn, I do not believe Simon calls, and I pick up a T330 pot instead of letting him draw the flush and bust me.

I'm supposed to know better.

Feedback?

Especially from Simon: Would you have called a push? Oh, go on, lie to me, make me feel better. I won't believe you anyway.

Doc /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Simon Diamond]

I'm glad you posted this hand Doc, I was going to do it myself to gauge opinions - thanks for saving me the trouble. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I very nearly raised your bet on the flop, but refrained from doing so because I had very little in the way of other outs aside from another diamond hitting.

The blank on the turn made life difficult. I knew you would bet and a bigger bet would most likely have forced me out (all-in would have been a definite fold). Your bet of 240, whilst not necessarily offering me the correct pot odds (which is all over my head anyway) was small enough in my mind to call and try and spike the diamond.

Had I missed the flush it would have been a straight forward fold on the river, and I would have been down to 1,350 in chips - still very workable.

Question - What do people think of my play in this situation?

Simon

PS - Sorry Doc, two weeks running /images/graemlins/frown.gif No way to treat a fellow Spurs fan is it!

[William]

Sorry Doc, two weeks running

He, he, Doc, seems like we all have that special one that keeps sending us to the rail.

Might consider hiring Simon as my personal bodyguard when we play in the same tourneys /images/graemlins/grin.gif

william /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Simon Diamond]

William,

I seem to have ruffled a few feathers in the past couple of weeks. Profit has me down as a nutter who always has a ten in my hand every time I play a pot, Thomastem is still annoyed that I sucked out against him with my K-K vs his Q-Q and now the good Doc has been tortured twice. I'm sure others are in the queue to get revenge against The Diamond.

Doc labels me as an aggressive player - is psycho more appropriate?

Simon

[William]

[ QUOTE ]
William,

I seem to have ruffled a few feathers in the past couple of weeks. Profit has me down as a nutter who always has a ten in my hand every time I play a pot, Thomastem is still annoyed that I sucked out against him with my K-K vs his Q-Q and now the good Doc has been tortured twice. I'm sure others are in the queue to get revenge against The Diamond.

Doc labels me as an aggressive player - is psycho more appropriate?

Simon

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, excellent. Always keep your foot over the fish's head while he is lying down. And kick him hard if he attempts to stand up.

Way to go simon /images/graemlins/smile.gif Welcome to the distinguished club of " Those who shall be feared " /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wiliam /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Simon Diamond]

I can liken the situation to the WWE, where a face (good guy) turns heel (bad guy). I can't quite explain it, but there is some sort of perverse enjoyment being derived from that. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Whilst we may be tentative allies in this forum, we are still sworn enemies in the zoo. Don't forget that!

Simon

[William]

we are still sworn enemies in the zoo.

No we aren't, I am the King and you are a subject. It's quite simple. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

William /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Simon Diamond]

Get over yourself. I am a loyal subject of Queen Lori, and will never bow down to you. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Your empire will collapse. It is not a matter of if, but when.

Simon

[William]

I am a loyal subject of Queen Lori

LOL and it should be me the one who has to get over myself /images/graemlins/grin.gif

This must be the laugh of the week /images/graemlins/grin.gif

/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

William (who was almost assasinated by hyperventilation due to laughter) /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Toro]

Just wanted to thank whoever had the idea for this tourney. It's been a lot of fun playing this the last two weeks.

For a $10 tourney it was very intense. Everbody it seemed was playing their 'A' game with no one "giving away" their chips. I look forward to playing again but I'm afraid that it's going to be somewhat of a crap shoot from now on to get in.

Last night I was very fast on the trigger to register and barely made it in. It filled up in about 5 seconds. I know that it's always said that there would be a second game if it filled up. But I didn't hear of a second game so I'm assuming there wasn't one.

Maybe, in the future, a second game should be planned if the turnout continues to grow. Just a thought. Again, thank you all again for some great competition that spared me from watching the debaucles at Fenway Park & the Fleet Center last night!

[Simon Diamond]

William (who was almost assasinated by hyperventilation due to laughter)

Damn. Nearly worked then.

Simon

[William]

[ QUOTE ]
William (who was almost assasinated by hyperventilation due to laughter)

Damn. Nearly worked then.

Simon

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, New attempt I can see /images/graemlins/grin.gif

If I suddenly disappear, everybody will know it's your fault (or your acomplishment)

William /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Simon Diamond]

Anyway, we seem to have got terribly side tracked here. Any opinions on the way I played my hand against Doc?

Simon

[William]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, we seem to have got terribly side tracked here. Any opinions on the way I played my hand against Doc?

Simon

[/ QUOTE ]

You played a hand against Doc? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I love highjacking posts /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Oh well, if I really must, I think the Doc forgot an important rule of NL. "Make your oponent pay as much as possible for his draw on the turn" (he's not going to put more chips in the pot in the river if he misses right Doc?)

You did fine, doc has too short a stack to be pushed out of the pot and you just sailed along exploiting Doc's mistake. Well done! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

William /images/graemlins/cool.gif

PS. Now, can we get back to the other subject? It was more interesting /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Simon Diamond]

PS. Now, can we get back to the other subject? It was more interesting

It was fun while it lasted, but I think we should let some of the other users use the board now.

We can resume hostilities on Thursday before KotZ. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Simon

[William]

[ QUOTE ]
PS. Now, can we get back to the other subject? It was more interesting

It was fun while it lasted, but I think we should let some of the other users use the board now.

We can resume hostilities on Thursday before KotZ. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Simon

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, ok, but the others can just start their own private thread (or HJ someone's else).

Anyway, I'm off to Sweden now. If i remember well, they have some of my money from last week /images/graemlins/frown.gif

William /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

If I PUSH All-In on the turn, I do not believe Simon calls, and I pick up a T330 pot instead of letting him draw the flush and bust me.

I don't agree. You have 2 pair. You bet 240 into a 330 pot, meaning he has to call 240 in a 570 pot with one card to come. You want an opponent who only has a flush draw to make a FTOP mistake and call here.

Don't beat yourself up on the turn bet. Now the river bet when the 3rd /images/graemlins/diamond.gif falls, well, that's another story all together. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Profit]

i disagree with william here, i don't think doc made a mistake on the turn (so i completely agree with kurn)

he had two pair, i LIKE having someone trying to hit their 20% out by calling without the correct pot odds. However, i wouldnt have gone all in on the river when that diamond did hit....

[DrPhysic]

Glad to see you on 2+2, Profit. Now if you kick butt at the SNG games at least we think you're one of us. (Which of course we ain't gonna let happen!)

Kurn was of course right about the turn and the river.

On the turn, anytime I can get the opponent to call a bet, especially a 1/2 pot to pot size bet on a 20% probablility, I win. And the big bet on the river after the third card to the flush hit was probably pretty questionable. I use the word questionable, rather than the word DUMB, because we know that simon will bluff and fairly regularly, therefore the question arises "Do you believe his all in bet?". I didn't.

My thinking on the original post was that knowing the above, (ie: the probability that simon would bet hard on a flush card at the river whether he had it or not), I thought I would have been better off shutting him out at the turn, and taking the T330 pot, thus avoiding the decision whether to call his river bet.

That thinking, of course, ignores the 80% of the time that he won't catch the third flush card and I win the hand outright picking up a T810 pot plus any river bets. Therefore, Kurn was right.

Doc /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Simon Diamond]

On the turn, anytime I can get the opponent to call a bet, especially a 1/2 pot to pot size bet on a 20% probablility, I win. And the big bet on the river after the third card to the flush hit was probably pretty questionable.

So my play is bad?

If you are considering pure pot odds and nothing else, then maybe it wasn't prudent play. But, and it's a big but, some of the comments you and others have made about me sum up the strongest part of my game. The fact I am totally unpredictable. Yeah I make mistakes, (like the hand I busted on the other night) but have also showed glimpses of what I can do in the last couple of weeks.

I call along, figuring that if I hit the flush I stand a pretty good chance of winning a big pot. Against a guy with solid credentials do you play your hand the same on the river?

Whatever, it's great to get these kinds of discussions going, and I wish you better luck in next weeks games.

Simon

[t_perkin]

First up I don't like your flop bet Physic. You are in EP with just a weak kicker and with so many players left behind you I don't think you can hope to win it on the flop unless you push (which is obviously wrong).

Also nobody has mentioned the possibility of the board pairing on the river (other than the A or 2). This destroys Physics hand, he would have to check and Simon (being Simon /images/graemlins/grin.gif) could almost certainly bluff him out of the pot. So really I think Simon has 5 more outs than is immediately apparent.

I think Physic should make a pot sized or slightly larger bet. Then Simon is clearly wrong to call, but I don't think the bet he made was hugely wrong.
Alternatively check raise all in because you know Simon is aggressive.

When the diamond does come on the river I think pushing in is a mistake here. He will only fold if you have him beat. So if you are willing to risk the possibility of him having the flush then you may as well check and call.

Just some thoughts.

Tim