Betting out on the turn to induce a raise

[Nate tha' Great]

Preflop play is unusual for me but my opponent here seemed not that bright. The turn play is something that I do a fair bit.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: NateThaGreat is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Button folds, SB folds, NateThaGreat calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
NateThaGreat checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, NateThaGreat calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">NateThaGreat bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">NateThaGreat 3-bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (9.20 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">NateThaGreat bets</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 11.20 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 11.20 BB, between NateThaGreat and UTG.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by NateThaGreat (11.20 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
NateThaGreat shows Ad Ac (one pair, aces).
UTG shows 9d Td (one pair, tens).
Outcome: NateThaGreat wins 11.20 BB. </font>

[scrub]

Yah--I don't have a clue how to play shorthanded. I figured I'd try playing these tables today, and it seemed to make sense until I decided to add a third table. Then I got completely overwhelmed and started doing all sorts of strange stuff.

The worst part of it is that I misclick raised... Not really sure why I called the river bet.

Ugh. Anyway, full tables for me from now on.

scrub

[Nate tha' Great]

Oh shoot! I didn't meant to be insulting, and to be honest, I didn't have much of a read on your play until after looking at the results of that hand.

I can't do more than two shorthanded tables myself. And if it makes you feel any better, I misclick-folded a $120 pot this afternoon (not sure that I was going to scoop it, but still...).

[Your Mom]

All player dependent on rather i try stuff like this. I've been trying to slowplay more preflop in situations like this but i always seemed to get burned by doing it. Looks like it worked out here though and I do like the bet out of nowhere play - it seems to work. The other place i like it is heads up with top pair no kicker against a preflop raiser. Check/call the flop and turn and then just bet the river. they almost always call rather they are ahead or behind.

[Ulysses]

All the time. Betting out on the turn to induce a raise is one of my favorite plays.

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting out on the turn to induce a raise is one of my favorite plays.

[/ QUOTE ]

like we didnt know - presumably this is a pre-emptive ruse to get us all to pay no respect to your turn bets from now on

slowplaying AA is a horrible business - i limped with AA in an aggro 15/30 game yesterday and although i got to 3 bet pre-flop and trapped the button with Q2s it wasnt good when that second 2 hit the river

when i slowplay AA twice a flush and a straight normally hit - once i had AA in the SB folded to me - i completed and then checked throughout to win - go figure

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[scrub]

Don't worry about it--it took me about 20 more minutes to realize that I was a huge loser in these games trying to play 3 tables, so I just picked up.

I figured that I was willing to put in some -EV time at these tables in the service of trying to get some "feel" for the games. I'm not sure if it was the lack of theory, playing too many tables, or just the fact that I'm stressed out about my impending thesis deadline and was playing to distract myself more than to make money, but I just never felt comfortable for the whole session.

I had a very hard time categorizing players or making sense of the action, and while I seemed to be at least holding my own in terms of decision making while playing two tables, adding the third table was a debacle.

Anyway, I checked out the games because I was impressed with the quality of many of the posts on this forum, and wanted to learn more about short games.

Now that I've sunk 70 BB into the learning process, I guess I might as well keep going. When I hand the damned thesis in next week, I think I might try to put in some more time figuring this stuff out...

Ok, back to my half-assed thesis.

scrub

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
I do like the bet out of nowhere play - it seems to work (p. 148)

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure about this. In Middlelimit Holdem Poker Ciafonne writes:

[ QUOTE ]
There is an old poker adage that says when a person take action inconsistent with his previous betting, the action taken later in the hand is more likely to be the one reflecting that person's true colours. This adage applies particualry well to the turn betting round.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Ciafonne is right here. When people do something strange on turn, this strange thing is often the true thing.

The bet doubles from flop to turn and it is later in the hand. Why shouldnt you believe more in the turn bet then the checkcall on flop? If he is bluffing calling is often best, if he got a better hand calling is better then raising, if he is on a draw raising is best... well, does he bet out a lot on turn with a draw that he played weakly on flop?

[Your Mom]

If you're just going to fold to my turn bets out of nowhere, I will be betting lots of turns and winning lots of pots with nothing.

[Nate tha' Great]

70 BB is nothing. I lost 70 BB in the shorthanded games yesterday, and I've lost that much many times.

So I'd stick with it. I like a poker player who is willing to accept some short-term turbulence in his win rate in exchange for longer-term gain, and there's a *lot* of upside for a player who becomes proficient at the shorthanded tables. But it does require an adjustment process. Your finely-honed poker sense (about such things as the likely strength of your hand relative to the others at the table) is going to be way off until you log enough hours.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
If he is on a draw raising is best...

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the times that I think the play works best is when a good semibluffing card comes off on the turn, such as a second suited card that might also give someone a straight draw, or maybe a low board pair.