AA early on

[Hiding]

I just finished a $10 SnG on Party. My seocnd hand dealt was AA on the button. everyone has 800-825 chips. UTG+1 bets 60, and MP+1 bets 125, I pushed all 800. My thinking was that even though its party what fool is going to call? I'll take the 185 and smile. Well they both called /images/graemlins/shocked.gif, I won(UTG+1 showed AKo, MP+1 77), and actually won the whole SnG /images/graemlins/grin.gif. But the hand bothers me, I realize with both callers odds were probably about right for this, but was my pushing all in this early in the tourney just plain dumb? Sure tripling up on hand two was great, but I coud just have well been gone. Basically does the risk (going out) offset the reward (great chip position for the money)?

[Gandor]

Push. Anytime you can get a chance to double, or triple, your stack that early in those crapshoots, you have to take it. In the event you get outdrawn, laugh and join the next one.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
Push. Anytime you can get a chance to double, or triple, your stack that early in those crapshoots, you have to take it. In the event you get outdrawn, laugh and join the next one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Precisely. No way are we turning this into a "Should I fold my AA preflop?" thread.

-Edge

[VarlosZ]

I would suggest raising less, but not because of the danger of busting out -- rather, because it's a shame just to win what's on the table when these low-limit players are so willing to pay you off with marginal hands. Obviously you won the maximum on this hand, but I think that, on balance, you will win more from them by making a more reasonable reraise preflop (say, to 300 or 400), and then pushing on the flop regardless of what comes.

Then again, I may be underestimating just how maniacal most $10+$1 players are. If the players in this example are par for the course (especially the player holding 77), then pushing is certainly correct.

[Jason Strasser]

This is absolutely not how I would've played it. Roy Cooke of Cardplayer Magazine wrote once that if you have an edge, you want to increase volume and it will lead to greater profit over time.

With AA, preflop, you clearly have an edge. Sure, you don't want to limp, and let everyone in, because in a tournament there is a great percentage of the time where you will not want to exploit small advantages. But in this case, with a raise in front of you to thin the field. Just call.

Occasionally you will get a flop where you are CLEARLY behind. For example, if you have black aces and the flop is 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif T /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif , you are probably behind. Many of the likely hands that raised preflop are beating you, and you can get away from a bad beat.

But most of the time, you will see a friendly flop. Check raise all in on the flop in most cases, and in the long run you will make more money. Sure, every now and then you will lose because you didnt push all in, but when you have the advantage, you want the volume.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
This is absolutely not how I would've played it. Roy Cooke of Cardplayer Magazine wrote once that if you have an edge, you want to increase volume and it will lead to greater profit over time.


[/ QUOTE ]

Over time?
Well lets play this hand over 1000 times and see what happens.

Good move, regardless of short term outcome.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[William]

Overbetting the pot gives also the impression that you are trying to steal it with a marginal hand. That combined with the fact that it is a 10$ SNG and if they go busted they can just join another one will make many players call the bet.

All-in is definitely the right move in this situation.

William /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[NotMitch]

After 2 raises at Party you are almost certain to get a caller if you push, for me this is an auto push.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
My seocnd hand dealt was AA on the button...But the hand bothers me, I realize with both callers odds were probably about right for this, but was my pushing all in this early in the tourney just plain dumb? Sure tripling up on hand two was great, but I could just have well been gone. Basically does the risk (going out) offset the reward (great chip position for the money)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your concern in this situation should be how to extract the most money from these opponents, while keeping in mind the additional risk of busting out if either one calls on a favorable flop when they would have folded preflop. You cannot be worried about your AA being busted by anyone who will go all-in before the flop. If this is something about which you do worry, you should not be playing NL!

[PSS]

You seem to believe that you don't want callers when you move all in! You want them both to call, and the only reason for not going all in pre-flop is that they might both *fold* to your raise, and all you'll get is the 185 that’s on the table.

Do you really think that you "could just as easily be gone" when you are a BIG favourite against any hand. Do you also really think that tripling your chips will *not* have a big affect on the amount of cash you figure to win in the tourney?

I simply can't comprehend that you could think the answer to either question is yes. You can't pass up such a good chance to build your chip stack... I'd raise to about 300 myself, but you got them both to call the all-in so it worked out for you this time.

NB. Had you lost the hand, it would STILL have worked out for you in terms of long term EV.

PSS

[Mors]

The pot was bet at and reraised, so you did the right thing.
If it had been limped at, then it'd be harder to judge, but under in that situation I'd push every time.

Mors

[m2smith2]

While it was a bit big relative to the pot, I don't think it's terrible for a few reasons:

1) If you make a pot-sized raise (calling the 125 and then matching that) then you're pot-committed anyway. So, better to put maximum pressure and hope someone has kings. For 3-way the hands they called with were about as good as you could hope for.

2) Finishing 4th is no better than finishing 10th. In fact, it's worse because you waste more time not winning money. Better to take a shot at doubling/tripling up when you're a big favoriate, and then giving yourself a great chance to be dangerous.

3) plenty of people will read your big bet as an over-bet and call with inferior hands, or dominated hands, as happened here. And again, given the pot-committed aspect, I don't really think it's an overbet.

Just my opinions. The best part is that you didn't get hung up on the fact that it worked out and you won, but rather you analyzed it later. Personally, I hope not to see you at the tables.

[m2smith2]

Although as another poster mentioned, it may underestimate how loose 10+1 players are.

[willperkins]

I dont' fault your push. The idea is to get all of your chips and as many of their chips in the pot when you have the best hand.
I probably would have rasied t250, only because I would want them to call me (or maybe even reraise) so I could get more of their chips in the pot later.
In this case you already accomplished that.

[Hold em 888]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Your concern in this situation should be how to extract the most money from these opponents, while keeping in mind the additional risk of busting out if either one calls on a favorable flop when they would have folded preflop. You cannot be worried about your AA being busted by anyone who will go all-in before the flop. If this is something about which you do worry, you should not be playing NL!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this 100%. The best hand IS the best hand. If every sit-n-go you ever played you got AA the second hand and two players raise and re-raise ahead of you, you'd be making the right play to move in every time you did it. The majority of the time, you will win (unless the whole damn table calls. BEWARE of the low limits /images/graemlins/wink.gif), and when you don't, you'l know you played it right. To put maximum pressure on a player willing to call with a lesser hand time and time again is how winning player become winning players.


So bet those chips. Your bankroll can thank you later.

[Ianco15]

You played it prefectly. Your goal with aces should be to get all in preflop where you are a favorite over any hand.

[betgo]

If you don't want to gamble, don't play poker.

The only question here is whether the push is likely to scare people away, so you should make a smaller reraise. The problem is that if you raise to 1/3 or 1/2 of everyone's chips, it pretty much pot comits everyone. It looks like you have a big pair and want callers. With a push, it might look like you are trying to steal the pot. Therefore, I would push.

[lorinda]

I just finished a $10 SnG on Party. My seocnd hand dealt was AA on the button. everyone has 800-825 chips. UTG+1 bets 60, and MP+1 bets 125, I pushed all 800. My thinking was that even though its party what fool is going to call?

Didn't read any more than this.

Early on, the fools are still sat there and it is a great spot to go all in and try to get a caller.

If they don't then at least you have a nice pot against slightly better than normal opponents, so the extra chips should be handy anyway.

Lori

[adanthar]

Actually, I'd like to ask a related question.

Early on in a couple of recent SNG's and MTT's, when I get aces in EP, raise, and there's a reraise behind I've been coming over the top. My reasoning has been that they're less likely to get away from the hand if I don't just reraise again.

In everyone's experience, does this work when the stacks are deepish? (Example: You have 1500-2K chips and get AA UTG. You raise to 90. A guy in MP with a similar stack reraises to 300-400. Does pushing or min-reraising produce better results?)

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Does pushing or min-reraising produce better results?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Pushing tends to produce better results. Min-reraises are too often signs of extreme strength.

[FlyingSumo]

I have absolutely no clue what to do here. I am torn between two choices, of either reraising enough to make them call more hands, or reraise allin.

The problem I mostly have, is how it will affect future play, I want them to be scared, so they will lay down those QJs when I move allin on a limpy preflopbluff.

Its hard for me to say that one way is the correct, I dont believe that, as it always depends on who you are up against.

Since its such loose callers here, I would maybe prefer allin, as to tighten them up a bit on the calling allins later on.

If these players was tough players, I would be more inclined to put less pressure on them preflop, to harvest the most chips early on, since I know its gonna be alot tougher getting their chips later on.

I guess I will go for the allin, and if folded to me, might even show it, and keep on having a tight image, untill I can profitably use that image.

[stupidsucker]

First couple hands of a SnG I will coldly push with AA or KK. People have alarms that go off in their heads and they automatically think you are a complete bafoon.

I cant count the amount of times that a middle pair or AX calls me.