h_ven
04-15-2004, 12:58 AM
Ok, we are down to a 4 handed, $20 max buy-in NL home game.
{chip count}
Small Blind approx. - $40
Me. - $20.00 even
I am 1st to act, I raise to $2.00 with K T o Button folds, and Small Blind raises to $4.00. The small blind is the dealer. He accidentally grabs his cards and puts them in the muck pile. But still has his $4.00 in front of him.
The dealer tells someone that folded during that hand was his hand was. He covers his mouth and whispers. No one hears what was said, but I see his mouth move twice.
So the person that was in the hand grabs the muck pile and hands the raiser his cards that he has put in the pile and says "Is that your suit" And then we realize that there is one of his cards in the muck pile. After that he puts his cards in front oh him and deals the flop.
The flop was [10 5 6] rainbow.
He is first to act, he raises all in immediately. He has more chips than me.
Immediately I call, with top pair K kicker, (K T)
I flip my cards over and he deals the turn and the river.
He was holding Ace Queen o.
The turn and river are no help to no one.
Then, this is where more problems begin, even worse than the pre-flop problem:
I say something like, "I knew your hand I thought you had Ace Ten"
I say I have $16 even.
And then the dealer says, something like, "wait, you said you heard my hand"
I says something like, "No, I didn't actually hear your hand, I just saw your mouth move twice, and I just guessed out of the blue, Ace Ten, I didn't hear anything"
I asked if anyone else at the table heard it and they said no, they didnt' hear it.
so the dealers says "Well when you saw my mouth move twice, you knew I didnt' have a pocket pair, and you knew I had two different cards and it must have had influenced you on your call. You never make an all-in call that quick with just top pair that quick."
I replied and defended myself "If what I saw,(I didnt' hear anything) would have influenced me, then why would I call with K 10, and I thought you had A 10? I would have been beaten."
I called so quickly after his all in without even thinking, so therefore, his telling the other person and me seeing his mouth move didn't influence me one bit.
(which is hard to prove)
I called because I thought he actually had over cards, and I thought he missed, so I called immediately.
Then he says, "Well I'l give you the $4.00 from the preflop bet"
He throws the chips at me and I give them back.
I say I want the $20.00
We argue and bring up several other points.
I say "Well first of all, preflop you should have had your hand folded and I should have taken down the $8.00 pot. But, I would have been nice and said lets just call it a dead hand and take back your money."
(I sounded kind of cheesy and all honest, but it's the truth)
But then I say, "But we didn't stop there, we actually flopped it out and played the hand"
He makes several other comments, and I make one more strong point.
I say "What if an Ace would have came on the turn or river. Then I would have said this "Wow, if I would have been thinking, than I would have folded after the flop knowing you had me out kicked, which proves that seeing his mouth move and guessing A T didn't influence me at all.""
I would have paid him off like nothing had happened.
We argue throughout the rest of the night and he keeps his money and I stay pissed.
Isn't overhearing someone talking about their cards just the same as getting a peek at their cards?
Even though I didn't hear anything, is that still just the same and hearing them, as seeing them?
What should have been done, other than calling it a dead hand preflop?
I thank you all for taking the time in reading this and responding to this, Thank you.
{chip count}
Small Blind approx. - $40
Me. - $20.00 even
I am 1st to act, I raise to $2.00 with K T o Button folds, and Small Blind raises to $4.00. The small blind is the dealer. He accidentally grabs his cards and puts them in the muck pile. But still has his $4.00 in front of him.
The dealer tells someone that folded during that hand was his hand was. He covers his mouth and whispers. No one hears what was said, but I see his mouth move twice.
So the person that was in the hand grabs the muck pile and hands the raiser his cards that he has put in the pile and says "Is that your suit" And then we realize that there is one of his cards in the muck pile. After that he puts his cards in front oh him and deals the flop.
The flop was [10 5 6] rainbow.
He is first to act, he raises all in immediately. He has more chips than me.
Immediately I call, with top pair K kicker, (K T)
I flip my cards over and he deals the turn and the river.
He was holding Ace Queen o.
The turn and river are no help to no one.
Then, this is where more problems begin, even worse than the pre-flop problem:
I say something like, "I knew your hand I thought you had Ace Ten"
I say I have $16 even.
And then the dealer says, something like, "wait, you said you heard my hand"
I says something like, "No, I didn't actually hear your hand, I just saw your mouth move twice, and I just guessed out of the blue, Ace Ten, I didn't hear anything"
I asked if anyone else at the table heard it and they said no, they didnt' hear it.
so the dealers says "Well when you saw my mouth move twice, you knew I didnt' have a pocket pair, and you knew I had two different cards and it must have had influenced you on your call. You never make an all-in call that quick with just top pair that quick."
I replied and defended myself "If what I saw,(I didnt' hear anything) would have influenced me, then why would I call with K 10, and I thought you had A 10? I would have been beaten."
I called so quickly after his all in without even thinking, so therefore, his telling the other person and me seeing his mouth move didn't influence me one bit.
(which is hard to prove)
I called because I thought he actually had over cards, and I thought he missed, so I called immediately.
Then he says, "Well I'l give you the $4.00 from the preflop bet"
He throws the chips at me and I give them back.
I say I want the $20.00
We argue and bring up several other points.
I say "Well first of all, preflop you should have had your hand folded and I should have taken down the $8.00 pot. But, I would have been nice and said lets just call it a dead hand and take back your money."
(I sounded kind of cheesy and all honest, but it's the truth)
But then I say, "But we didn't stop there, we actually flopped it out and played the hand"
He makes several other comments, and I make one more strong point.
I say "What if an Ace would have came on the turn or river. Then I would have said this "Wow, if I would have been thinking, than I would have folded after the flop knowing you had me out kicked, which proves that seeing his mouth move and guessing A T didn't influence me at all.""
I would have paid him off like nothing had happened.
We argue throughout the rest of the night and he keeps his money and I stay pissed.
Isn't overhearing someone talking about their cards just the same as getting a peek at their cards?
Even though I didn't hear anything, is that still just the same and hearing them, as seeing them?
What should have been done, other than calling it a dead hand preflop?
I thank you all for taking the time in reading this and responding to this, Thank you.