The UN in action

[Gamblor]

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/040329/britt.gif

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I have about as much faith in the UN as I do my dog's ass being the key to solving the middle east crisis. The UN needs to be dissolved as a worthless waste of time, money, energy, and news media time.

al

[adios]

Excellent post. The UN's record speaks for itself. Cyrus should be chiming in soon extolling the virtues of the UN and it's "wonderful" record. Sic em Cyrus /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Given the choce, my money's on your dog's ass.

[Gamblor]

Well, we're all gamblers, care to make it interesting?

When I move back, I'll wager my life on it.

As if I had a choice.

[Cyrus]

The record shows that there has never been a condemnation of Israel alone by the United Nations Security Council. At best, there have been joint and equal condemnations of both sides, irrespective of culprits.

The record also shows that there is one nation that is the undisputed champion of the world for violating Security Council Resolutions, including Resolutions passed with the affirmative vote and the strong support of the United States. Yes, that nation is Israel. Where is your cartoon for that?

[nicky g]

This depends what you mean by the UN. THe General Assembly, lead by Arab countries, frequently criticises Israel while refusing to condemn specific groups, although it is willing to denounce all attacks against civilians.

The Security Council, on the other hand, which has the power to issue binding resolutions, virtually never criticises Israel because the US always vetos such resolutions. I don't know whether it criticises individual terrorist groups on a regular basis, but if the US wanted to it could almost certainly push them through. It laughably passed a resolution against ETA following the Madrid bombings. What you have to realise when criticising the "UN" is that you are really criticising the countries behind particular decisions, unles you're referring to UN programmes (UNICEF etc) rather than declarations, resolutions etc.

[Gamblor]

The record also shows that there is one nation that is the undisputed champion of the world for violating Security Council Resolutions, including Resolutions passed with the affirmative vote and the strong support of the United States. Yes, that nation is Israel. Where is your cartoon for that?

Actually, that would be correct for number of violations. However, Israel is not obligated to accept UN resolutions, until its security and right to exist is guaranteed.

Now, in terms of longest continued violation of a single UN resolution, that Championship is necessarily awarded to each and every Arab nation outside Jordan and Egypt, for their continued and unapologetic 57 year, 7 month, and 15 day violation of United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, calling for the establishment of a Jewish State (alongside an Arab state).

It is this original violation that has led to Israel's security problems and safety problems, without which Israel could afford to abide by the rest of the resolutions.

[Gamblor]

For example, the UNRWA, whose compounds have housed terrorists fleeing Israeli police forces.

[nicky g]

That resolution called for a state along very different lines than the current state of Israel. Even if that were no the case, how would those countries be violating it?

[nicky g]

UNRWA took responsibilty for housing and providing basic services for Palestinian refugees. Amongst those refugees there are, not very surprisingly, anti-Israel militants. WHat would you suggest UNWRA do, close the camps and shelters down and toss the refugees into the street? Exactly what help has Israel provided to the refugees?

[Cyrus]

"The UNRWA's compounds have housed terrorists fleeing Israeli police forces."

Yeah, terrorists such as these women and children (http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/0/0334c8fc8ba36ad185256c5500642e1d?OpenDocument) or these (http://www.jfjfp.org/9-15.htm).

[Gamblor]

That resolution called for a state along very different lines than the current state of Israel.

That is the result, as any Middle Eastern historian will tell you, of Arab wars of aggression, which forced Israel to appropriate land in order to defend itself from increasingly aggressive opponents.

Even if that were no the case, how would those countries be violating it?

By refusing to accept Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. By spewing anti-Israel rhetoric, labelling it "the Zionist entity", by repeatedly declaring war on it until it was realized that the Arab nations could not win via military force.

Are you of the impression that if the Jewish State contained 300 million people, encompassing hundreds of thousands of square miles, and billions in oil reserves, and if 5 million Arabs were herded onto a sliver of land the size of Lake Ontario, the same degree of carnage would have taken place?

[MMMMMM]

A good choice, Kurn, because at least his dog's ass won't make the problems any worse.

[Gamblor]

As we have long established that Israeli military might vs. poor Palestinian rock throwers would theoretically allow Israel to murder as many women, children, and wheelchair-bound hate-mongers as it so desired, we may safely assume that any civilians the IDF attempted to kill indeed were killed.

On the other hand, allow us to examine the numbers that really matter: the number of attempted attacks by Palestinian Arab terrorists, who enjoy approximately a 5% success rate. If we are to assume that the Arabs had the same 100% success rate as the IDF, then using the 942 Israelis who have died in successful terrorist attacks since September 2000, we discover that the Palestinians have in fact attempted to murder 4,710.

Nearly five thousand.

Hamas pledges to keep fighting, as does Israel (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-03-23-hamas_x.htm)

[nicky g]

This analysis ignores the fairly obvious point that if the attack rate was more successful, the organisations would doubtfully feel the need to attempt as many attacks.

I love the way your benchmark comparison for the actions of the Israeli Agression Force is a terrorist group that openly targets civilians (but hey, we know you don't have a problem with such tactics when the situation is reversed). Hey guys, this army I'm so proud of isn't quite as bad as these satanic terrororists. What an acclamation.

[Gamblor]

WHat would you suggest UNWRA do, close the camps and shelters down and toss the refugees into the street?

Turn over wanted terrorists when Israel attempts to arrest them and have them stand trial, using not totalitarian dictatorship (Arafat), but the democratic rule of law (Israel) as the measure of justice.

Exactly what help has Israel provided to the refugees?

Bir Zeit university, University of Gaza, entry to Israel for employment (during times of peace).

[Gamblor]

This analysis ignores the fairly obvious point that if the attack rate was more successful, the organisations would doubtfully feel the need to attempt as many attacks.

That has absolutely no basis in fact and is clearly your personal opinion. It has no ground in any historical evidence, as Palestinian terror has continued, in varying degrees, since the First Aliyah of 1882.

I love the way your benchmark comparison for the actions of the Israeli Agression Force is a terrorist group that openly targets civilians (but hey, we know you don't have a problem with such tactics when the situation is reversed). Hey guys, this army I'm so proud of isn't quite as bad as these satanic terrororists. What an acclamation.

For the sake of comparison, I was taking your disheartening assumption that the Zahal, trained in Tohar haNeshek, is deliberately targeting innocent civilians as fact. If you ever sat through one of these 4 hours sessions you'd understand how ridiculous you sound. Now sit through 12 more.

[nicky g]

UNRWA is not a police force, it is a refugee aid service. If such a responsibility existed it would liw with teh governments of those countries, not UNRWA.

"Bir Zeit university, University of Gaza"

Those are in the territories, they are of no use to the 5mn refugees. It has done precisely nothing for those people despite enjoying the comforts of their homes and the fruit of their lands.

"entry to Israel for employment (during times of peace)"

You mean exploiting cheap labour with no other choice and the blackmail of cutting of their only economic resources whenever they want? Very generous. Israel won't even allow the territories to have any serious trade relations with anyone other than Israel; the suggestion that it's doing the territories any economic favours is criminal.

[nicky g]

"For the sake of comparison, I was taking your disheartening assumption that the Zahal, trained in Tohar haNeshek, is deliberately targeting innocent civilians as fact. If you ever sat through one of these 4 hours sessions you'd understand how ridiculous you sound. Now sit through 12 more. "

Yeah yeah, it's all been a terrible mistake. Oh look another mistake. Oh look and there's another one. Oh look, we just shelled a refugee camp. 100 more mistakes. Here's a 6 year-old mistake with a bullet through his eye. D'you think anyuone should be punished for these mistakes? Should we investigate them properly? Nah, they're just unavoidable mistakes, right? In fact, let's give soldiers who make the mistakes medals. If the IAF is trained to avoid killing civilians it is the most incompetent army in the universe.

[Gamblor]

If the IAF is trained to avoid killing civilians it is the most incompetent army in the universe.

Either that, or the enemy is well-trained at using civilians as human shields and blurring the line between civilian and terrorist.

After all, what else would you expect from the same people who send 12-year-olds and 14-year-old handicapped kids (Abdo Hussein) with bombs strapped to their chests?

They care about the lives of their next door neighbours?

[Cyrus]

"Allow us to examine the numbers that really matter: the number of attempted attacks..."

LOL. Any time you wanna compare number of dead people between Israelis and Palestinians, and not just soft figures such as near-misses, attempts etc, let me know. Not that you ever will without obfuscation and smoke, but I'm just saying.

Oh, I forgot. One Israeli life is worth a hundred Palestinian lives. Sorry, my bad.

[Gamblor]

Of course, because the Palestinian number includes:

Palestinian Authority Executions
Bomb-making accidents
Suicide bombers themselves
Terrorist Gunmen killed in the midst of attacks

Gotcha.