Lay down AA here? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

JSD

04-14-2004, 03:03 AM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, CO calls, BB calls, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (16.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero ...

UTG+1 is a good player and I figure him for KK/QQ/JJ here. CO and BB are both new to the table and I have no notes on them. I am, of course, suspicious of their pre-flop and flop cold-calls and I really have no idea what to put them on (there isn't a single hand I will call three cold with!). Coldcalling with midpairs seems to be a fish favorite, and I'm behind 55,66,77,88 and 99 here. Do I lay down to this turn raise and coldcall? What about if BB had folded, making it heads-up?

StellarWind

04-14-2004, 11:31 AM

I'd call the 21.5 BB pot but it's close. Against snowmen you have two outs to a tie. Against a set you have 2 outs to a set of aces and 4 outs to a tie. Against two pair you have 8 outs to a win.

I would fold the river unless I improve. The wild card is that against all reason, the river could check through and your hand could be good. It happens once in a while.

JSD

04-14-2004, 05:52 PM

Well, my logic was similar, so I called. And folded when CO bet the river and BB check-raised.

BB showed 88.
CO showed J8o.

The poor guy called three cold pre-flop with J8o. It was duly noted.

I posted this because I think I have a bad habit of overplaying big overpairs. I can't remember the last time I called a turn raise with them and won.

Tosh

04-14-2004, 06:07 PM

I think my question is whether you should have raised the flop.

JSD

04-14-2004, 06:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think my question is whether you should have raised the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume your implied suggestion is to smooth-call the flop and then raise the turn? Let me see if I understand the logic behind this:

I've got two unknowns behind me who both did some serious coldcalling pre-flop. If they are staying in for one bet on the flop, its VERY unlikely that they are folding for two. I've also got perfect position, first to act after the bettor.

So I smooth-call the flop and hope that UTG+1 will lead the turn again and I can raise, making it 2BBs to go to the two coldcalling unknowns behind me. While they were unlikely to fold for any amount on the flop, many players will fold for 2BBs on the turn unless they have a very strong draw.

Unfortunately in this case, I would have been 3-bet. But I think I can comfortably muck to the 3-bet (and inevitable coldcall behind it) on the turn, knowing that even if I spike an Ace on the river, I'm probably not good.

Did I get it right?