AKo not working out

[cnfuzzd]

Apparently i am doing better with 94s than Ako. Its all about sample size, i know, but im still curious exactly what ive done wrong here. Suggestions? Thanks.

peace
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO (poster) calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, BB folds.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG+2 shows Qs Kc (two pair, kings and queens).
Hero shows Ks Ad (one pair, kings).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins 14.25 BB. </font>

[Nak]

It seems like a raise on the flop might be right. You are scared of the two pair, and raising would give you valuable information when you get called. It will save you money instead of raising on the turn.

Nak

[Rico Suave]

Hey cnfuzzd:

[ QUOTE ]
but im still curious exactly what ive done wrong here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the main thing you did wrong here was allowing someone to flop 2 pair when you flopped TPTK. You will do much better when you can learn to stop doing this. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

In all seriousness, there was nothing you could do here to change the outcome; however, I would have played it differently. I would not have slowplayed this--raise UTG's flop bet! Allowing the field to see the turn for cheap is a mistake IMO.

Once he bets into you again on the river, I probably would have just called.

--Rico

[Peter Harris]

gotta agree, raise the flop bet. saves you dough.

they don't always hit their 3-outers! better luck next time.

I was a $1.70 loser per hand with AKo originally (yeuch). i have turned that around to a 89c profit per hand, mostly by not chasing when i don't hit the flop. But on your hand i'd be raising the flop and seeing how UTG+2 reacts.

All the best,
Peter Harris

[DoctorDrew]

I agree. Lets change scenario. Raise flop and get called. UTG bets out on the river. Do you just go into call down mode? When (would/do) you fold this hand?

[Rico Suave]

Hey doc:

[ QUOTE ]
Raise flop and get called. UTG bets out on the river. Do you just go into call down mode?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.
If it is heads up and the bettor bets into our hero again on the turn, then I call it down.


[ QUOTE ]
When (would/do) you fold this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't.

--Rico

[Nak]

Well, I guess that should have said "at least calls". If UTG reraises on the flop, you know you are beat. If he calls you can probably put him on JTs or KQ. But with a straight draw I am not sure if he would open on the flop with so few players. Therefore, I think that you can likely put him on two pair. Now, if you haven't raised PF, then he might open with top pair, but not in this case.

So it might be good to fold the turn if you don't improve. As one other poster noted, you may loose $$ if you chase.

Nak

[DoctorDrew]

Thanks Rico,

IMHO that is the one place these posts tend to fall short. BTW, I think it is excellent around here.

The advice is usually in the form, "I would have raised the flop and here's why." Often what is not stated is even more important. i.e., "even though I am probably behind, I think I will win this enough to call it to the river in order to show a profit.

Thanks again.

[Nak]

Yes, I agree. You need to be pretty sure of the read on two pair to fold like I said in my earlier post. But, I think that it is possible to be sure on that read if you have some info about UTG.

Nak

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently i am doing better with 94s than Ako. Its all about sample size, i know

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, that's it in a nutshell. Since I got pokertracker I've had AA 40 times, KK 40 times, and QQ 39 times. AA is a huge winner for me, QQ is a huge winner for me, but oddly enough, QQ has won 3.75 times more money for me than KK.

Oddly enough? No, not really. Sure 9,000 plus hands is a nice amount, and 40 occurences of each of those hands is more than a handful, but its still clearly in the shorterm where all kinds of statistically unlikely things can show up.

Heck, I've done better with hands like, 66, 99, J7s, K-Jo and a whole host of other hands than I have with KK. But a few hundred thousand hands from now, you want to lay odds on any of these hands being better performers for me than KK? That QQ will still be making 375 percent more than KK? It'll all come around...

As for the hand you posted...looks like you played your TPTK a bit strongly on the expensive streets.

--Zetack

[Jaran]

I would raise this flop. If 3bet, then I prolly go into check call. I would still lose, though /images/graemlins/grin.gif

-Jaran

[MicroBob]

"Often what is not stated is even more important. i.e., "even though I am probably behind, I think I will win this enough to call it to the river in order to show a profit. "


i see this idea repeated again and again in many of the HH's posted on ML and SS forums.

[afk]

I'd raise the flop. If he still comes at you by 3-betting or betting out on the turn then it might be time to call down. Perhaps the turn raise is alright, but I probably would have called down the river.