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View Full Version : Confused so I folded KK, help pls.


Cohiba Al
04-13-2004, 10:06 AM
This hand hit me yesterday at Foxwoods 4-8 limit hold 'em. I was sitting in MP1 with black kings.

Preflop: EP1 calls, EP2 calls, HERO raises, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.

My thinking here (other than always raise KK) was to build the pot and drive out any dry aces that might hurt me later. Pretty standard play. I wish I had a chance to re-raise as well to show more strength.

Flop: 8,9,10 rainbow. SB bets out, BB raises, EP1 folds, EP2 cold calls 2 bets, and the action is to me...

... and I'm stumped. Here were some of my thoughts: I have a very tight conservative table image as one who only gets into hands with good cards and a preflop raise means something from me. BB's body language becomes more active and makes a comment about she holds her "lucky hand" (and dangit I should know what that is but figured it late and called her cards correctly at the showdown). I was the only preflop raiser and yet the SB bet out into this flop... what does that mean? The BB raised the flop, knowing I had great cards in my hand, what does that mean? EP2 *cold called* two bets in front of me, knowing I had good cards.

In the end I mucked right there, mostly because I didn't know what to do or how to read this. Better to lose one big bet than to chase to the river on an already beat hand and lose much much more. Either three must have had a set, or hit the straight on the flop, or maybe two pair. And it takes only one of them to do so to beat me.

End Result: BB (holding her lucky J10) wins the pot with no callers on an outside straight that never completed, and my KKs would have won.

How should I have read this? Was I wrong to lay down so easily? What should my play have been here, re-raise again and pray?

sublime
04-13-2004, 10:12 AM
I can justify the fold. You may be beaten right there and then, nevermind that SB and BB probably have more outs than you do.

Shitty flop for you, with SB and BB coming along for the ride despite your pre-flop raise.

MaxPower
04-13-2004, 10:31 AM
NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO.......

Please stop. Your killing me. You are giving your opponents way to much credit. They probably don't even remember that the pot was raised pre-flop or if they do, they can't remember who the raiser was. The guy calling 2 cold has a pair of 2s and is hoping to catch trips on the turn.

Your confusion comes out of trying to make sense of your opponents actions. You are putting way to much emphasis on reading their hands this early in the hand. If there actions don't make sense it is usually because they don't make sense.

Play this hand as if you are ahead, untill you have a better reason to assume you are not. Don't get all panicky just because there is a little action on the flop. I would be saying the same thing if you had not revealed the results.

LetsRock
04-13-2004, 10:54 AM
Well, you seem to know the players (or at least you think you do) so you have to make the move that is right for you in that situation.

That being said, I think you were a little quick to let go of your hand. I don't think I would have played the hand "as if I were ahead" (as Max suggested), but I don't think I could have layed it down quite that easily.

You could easily be behind (2 pr, straight, set), but you might just as well be being tested by BB trying to find out if you were raising with an AK type of hand. BB caught TP and an open ender so she was semi-bluffing and it worked.

It seems that you should know this tendency of the player (if you know them well enough to "know" what they think of your image) and could have pushed back on the flop. A 3-bet by you should drive out SB and help define BB's hand. If she really has you beat, you'd expect a 4-bet and then you can lay down with a little more confidence. That's a lot of information for 3 small bets.

But even if you wanted to play it safe, you could have just called it down. It's a scary board, but when I have KK or AA, I want to see what beats me. If the boards 4-straights or 4-flushes, then it's a little harder to see it through, but I try not to get too afraid just because of the "maybes".