Flush Draw turn decision

Hello everyone,


Wanted comments about the turn action here,


I’m in BB with Q6s. UTG and cutoff are the only limpers. 3 of us to the flop.


8sTd5s I bet, all call.


turn is [8sTd5s]Ah

I check, and it gets shecked through.


river is [8sTd5sAh]As


I bet get raised by UTG cutoff folds and I reraise....my hand is good against KTs


Comments please, the turn action in particular. Check vs. bet?


Thanks,


Allan

I would certainly have bet the turn. Lots of players will bet the flop here with a flushdraw. If they then chicken out on the turn it´s almost certain that they have a flushdraw, although a tough player could check-raise an ace here. There´s a good chance now that everyone will fold if they dont have an ace, and you might win the pot on the river, even if you dont hit, depending on the turn action (whether or not to bet the river). Note that a pair on the flop would most likely raise the flop.


UTG had not KsTs right? Your river 3-bet is risky, because your opponent is not likely to have an ace because he would have bet the turn in that case. If he´s a pretty good player he wouldnt pay off your river 3-bet with less than a flush (if you consider 3 of a kind aces not possible because he didnt bet the turn). So he either has a better or a worse flush, with a very small chance he has a fullhouse (because he would have bet the turn also). Now it depends on his preflop UTG limping standards if you can 3-bet or not. Because lets say he could limp with 98s-KQs, KJs, KTs, QTs, AJs-8s. 98s, 9Ts, QTs and QJs would probably play fast on the flop, because they have top pair with a flushdraw. QJs has a monster draw (straight, flush, and overcards). AJs-8s isnt possible because of the As on the board. The only hand likely to just call the flop is KJs. You´ll lose against that hand. Against a decent to good player I would most likely just call the raise.


Regards


BTW UTG played terrible by not betting the turn IMO.

"I would certainly have bet the turn. Lots of players will bet the flop here with a flushdraw. If they then chicken out on the turn it´s almost certain that they have a flushdraw"


One low limit trick I often use after I bet a draw for value on the flop is to check when an overcard comes. It looks like I may be checking a flopped top pair in fear of the overcard so it really doesn't give a lot away. Often it is checked right behind you by all the bottom/middle pairs, and when you have the worst hand a free turn card is much appreciated (unless of course you think you can win against these goons without showing your hand, which can sometimes be tough).


Also, getting raised on the turn here is a disaster, especially if it comes from your direct left.

"I would certainly have bet the turn. Lots of players will bet the flop here with a flushdraw. If they then chicken out on the turn it´s almost certain that they have a flushdraw..."


When would you suggest taking a free card? I often, not always, jam the flop and take a free card if I happen to be last to act. I may be screaming flush draw on the turn and not get paid on the river, but I get to make my hand for free and maybe even let someone catch a straight, two-pair, or even a smaller flush and pay me anyway. Is this right or wrong? Do you put in as many bets and raises as possible, assuming you have several in the hand?

"When would you suggest taking a free card"


There are many situations when a free card is called for. This mostly are the cases when you know you´re behind and your opponents arent likely to fold to a bet. But in this example this isnt the case. You might very well win here with a turn bet, and if not you have the possibility to set up a steal on the river by another bet. Note that in this case you dont have position, so a free card is less likely to happen.


"I often, not always, jam the flop and take a free card if I happen to be last to act. I may be screaming flush draw on the turn and not get paid on the river, but I get to make my hand for free and maybe even let someone catch a straight, two-pair, or even a smaller flush and pay me anyway. Is this right or wrong?"


It´s often right to take a free card, especially if your against multiple opponents and the texture of the board is in a way that you opponents are not very likely to fold. You should be carefull with the freecard play IMO if you´re for instance in a headsup pot and you´re opponent will take any chance to push you of a pot. Then the information you give away by checking the turn may very well cost you the pot.


"Do you put in as many bets and raises as possible, assuming you have several in the hand?"


What do you mean by several in the hand? Players? It all depends on the consequences of your betting (info, possible free card etc) and the immediate EV you get. With multiple opponents calling and with good position it´s often wise to play the flop hard and take the free card. But if the pot is contested shorthanded and I see a possibility to pick up the pot without improvement somewhere, then I often opt to play it hard on multiple streets. I play it soft if there are not many opponents, and I dont think there´s a way to pick it up, and I only risk to get raised.


Regards

You might be right. I mainly play online in the middle limits, and I might apply that thinking here. Because no way they would check middle pairs behind here, and they´ll often take shots on a non-scary board if it´s quite certain you have a draw, because a ten is expected to bet again, even if an ace falls. I think checking the turn here with your draw is an invitation to get outplayed by decent to good players.


But again, against poor opposition you very well may be right, and I´m overthinking here.


Regards