Stuck at break even

[twang]

My short 0.5/1 pokerhistory:

Deposited 50 $, went broke after two days. Deposited 50 more, went broke after three days. Found these forums, started to use Sklansky´s starting hands (haven´t read the book, found them on the net) and that improved my play a lot: I deposited another 50 and they are still there, 4 weeks later.

I have been up to 90, down to 25, but I am mostly hovering around 50 (break even), playing about 4 hours a day. Sounds familiar?

Obviously I am stuck at break even - how do I break out from there?

Thanks.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
started to use Sklansky´s starting hands (haven´t read the book,)

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the damn book.

[ QUOTE ]
...4 weeks later...I am mostly hovering around 50 (break even), playing about 4 hours a day. Sounds familiar?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because I read the damn book when I first started. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[twang]

In the time between my post and the reply from pudley4, I ordered HPFAP and WLLP, they should arrive in a couple of days... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Any other thought on the matter is of course appreciated.

Thanks.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Found these forums, started to use Sklansky´s starting hands (haven´t read the book, found them on the net) and that improved my play a lot: I deposited another 50 and they are still there, 4 weeks later.


[/ QUOTE ]

The starting hand groups don't mean much if you don't know when to play them. You really need to read the book if you are serious abou timproving your game. These forums are great but without the background you would get from reading a few good poker books much of the best discussion won't really sink in because you don't have the basic understanding of the game that you need.

[Herb]

[ QUOTE ]
My short 0.5/1 pokerhistory:

I have been up to 90, down to 25, but I am mostly hovering around 50 (break even), playing about 4 hours a day. Sounds familiar?

Obviously I am stuck at break even - how do I break out from there?

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm fairly new, too, and am also strictly break-even so far. I've studied the books (make sure to read them over and over--sections that didn't make sense the first time will make sense after another few thousand hands), I play several hours every day, and I read everything here that seems relevant.

I don't know why you're upset. Break-even feels awful good to a newbie like me. When I lose, I usually recognize my mistake. I get to keep playing without spending more money. I'm learning stuff every day. And I'm hopeful--nay, confident--that I'll be able to move up, probably sooner rather than later.

So my advice, for what it's worth, it to bear down and get your reps in. You seem to be doing fine. Be grateful.

[twang]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know why you're upset. Break-even feels awful good to a newbie like me. When I lose, I usually recognize my mistake. I get to keep playing without spending more money. I'm learning stuff every day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Herb. I am not upset about the situation - my mistake if I came off that way. Actually I am pretty happy. Just like you, I have come far enough to educate myself somewhat at the tables without spending loads of money. That is a huge step in the right direction for me. I have learned how to crawl, so to speak.

I just wondered what you guys did to elevate your game to the next level - from break even to solid +BB/hour.

/twang

[lostinthought]

[ QUOTE ]
I just wondered what you guys did to elevate your game to the next level - from break even to solid +BB/hour.

/twang

[/ QUOTE ]

I took this magic potion called sklalmuth, with added hair of caro made by a cooke (roy, that is), served at Ciaffone's in downtown Austin, Tx.

good luck

[scotnt73]

i was a break even player for 6 months till it all clicked and i started making a little money. i bonus whored while i was "paying my dues" and had turned 100$ into 500$ before i even became a winning player just by breaking even+bonuses.

1)read the books
2)start at the .50/1$ tables and play,play,play while bonus whoring all the sites
3)keep tightening preflop until you see less than 25% of the flops total(you will have to give up the crap hands to do this)

[twang]

Thanks for the reply. A question comes to mind: When players are talking about percentage of flops seen, does that number (25% for instance) include checking from the big blind?

[Lexander]

Break even is fine for a beginner, IMHO.

At your level (and the level I play at, which isn't much higher), getting past break-even is mostly about the following:

#1) Learning to hit the fold button.
#2) Learning to hit the raise button.
#3) Learning what that call/check buttons are correctly used for (much less than you would think).
#4) Learning what it means to 'fit or fold'.
#5) Learning to bluff rarely.
#6) Learning to never worry about whether a specific bet wins or loses as long as it was the right bet.
#7) Learning to never fear putting in a bet or raise.

You will spend most of your time folding pre-flop, which will do wonders for your pocketbook. You will then spend most of the rest of the time folding at the flop. After that, you will fold less at the turn and even less at the river.

Not all of these ideas are as important in other games (higher limits, no-limit games, ...), but they apply very strongly at your limits.

I still work putting all of this into practice. Part of why I don't play No-Limit much anymore is that I realised I was too concerned about the money I was betting to play the game correctly. I am still working on that.

You improve by practice and study. Nothing else is going to change that unless you are so naturally gifted you can figure everything out immediately.

- Lex

[twang]

Thanks lex, nice checklist. I need to improve on all those areas, except maybe for #5.

[Randy Burgess]

I have read Mason Malmuth's essays in which he talks about good players only playing 15 percent of their starting hands in hold'em. However I don't recall that he ever specifies whether this 15 percent includes either or both of the blinds in unraised pots. I'd be curious to know the answer.

[Homer]

I believe it is 15% from outside the blinds.

[Shabbir]

I'd also suggest picking up a copy of PokerTracker, which will let you slice and dice the data from all your past games easily. It's that or sit in front of PartyPoker with a notebook.

It's tremendously useful for replaying your hands, seeing how many flops you're taking, and analyzing your opponents play after the fact. You can also spot bad trends in your play. I think it's totally worth the $50 or so it cost me to register it.

-Shabbir

PS Getting a friend to trade data with is useful too. Preferably someone who's a better player than you, who can look at your Pokertracker data and say, "you know you're betting small pairs without enough callers", etc....

[darryl2172]

I just recently moved from being a break even player to a winning player. My advise for you is simple, study, study,study! I personally took a 3 week break from actual play to study these forums, various books, and most importanly my play. Since my break i have had a hell of a run and I beleive I owe it all to having enough discipline to step away from the tables for a while.

[pretender2k]

read more and daily, play more, post hands here for analysis.

[pretender2k]

If you invest in PokerTracker you will find a big difference in the percentage of flops seen and times you voluntarily put money ine the pot. Voluntarilary putting money in the pot is a much more telling figure. Some nights you can see almost every pot for free from the big blind and others and generally the most profitable you will have to pay to see almost any flop. Spend the money for PokerTracker if you are serious about becoming a profitable player.

[Lexander]

My own experience with PokerTracker suggests that it is a valuable tool for truly analyzing the long term tendencies in your play.

For example, I no longer look at 'just winning the blinds' like I once did. The statistics are pretty much bearing out that on most hands, if I could just win the blinds I would end up farther ahead. I am now rather pleased when my AQo raise wins the blinds.

[sfer]

Read the Micro forums. Regularly.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
For example, I no longer look at 'just winning the blinds' like I once did. The statistics are pretty much bearing out that on most hands, if I could just win the blinds I would end up farther ahead. I am now rather pleased when my AQo raise wins the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen