Professional's Opinion's on Partypoker?

[PITTM]

I am a fairly new poker player, been playing hold em seriously for about a year now. I've played on about every site and found them all to be somewhat unrealistic, so i went back to party poker, hey, its unrealistic but at least the people who play there suck. Today i've been dealt pocket kings 4 times in sng's and went all in with a short stack all 4 times and got beat by pocket aces all 4 times. Is it pretty much a given among experts that partypoker is an absolute fraud in terms of card distribution? Again, i am very new to this forum and may have missed any previous discussion. Thanks for your feedback.

Ryan

[MicroBob]

"Is it pretty much a given among experts that partypoker is an absolute fraud in terms of card distribution? "


absolutely.

also, FYI.....the same topic is being "discussed" in the general forum.

[Jim Easton]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it pretty much a given among experts that partypoker is an absolute fraud in terms of card distribution?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.


<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> starting_hand times_dealt
Q3o 2214
KQo 2207
J8o 2198
AJo 2188
KJo 2178
54o 2174
97o 2170
T5o 2170
83o 2170
95o 2163
A6o 2163
62o 2157
96o 2147
A4o 2146
64o 2141
92o 2139
K5o 2136
K3o 2130
T9o 2129
Q8o 2125
T8o 2124
Q7o 2123
72o 2122
K4o 2122
J7o 2121
J2o 2121
T2o 2121
K7o 2121
A3o 2120
J3o 2120
74o 2117
63o 2114
76o 2113
98o 2112
75o 2108
Q9o 2107
K9o 2107
53o 2104
AQo 2103
K6o 2101
87o 2101
A2o 2100
J6o 2100
Q6o 2097
J4o 2095
93o 2094
A8o 2093
A9o 2092
ATo 2088
32o 2087
T7o 2086
65o 2083
Q5o 2083
52o 2081
J9o 2077
84o 2077
T6o 2075
T4o 2069
J5o 2064
43o 2062
AKo 2061
Q4o 2053
85o 2051
A5o 2050
86o 2046
QJo 2046
T3o 2045
73o 2035
K8o 2033
KTo 2029
82o 2027
Q2o 2026
QTo 2025
K2o 2025
94o 2018
A7o 2012
JTo 2007
42o 2003
QQ 1105
KK 1093
44 1072
99 1070
55 1059
22 1058
JJ 1053
88 1049
77 1046
TT 1041
AA 1036
66 1024
33 1017
T3s 757
62s 756
54s 753
43s 750
64s 747
K6s 742
T5s 737
A2s 736
A3s 733
85s 726
J3s 726
J9s 726
76s 726
87s 725
T6s 724
J7s 723
K2s 722
74s 722
JTs 718
Q8s 717
97s 717
52s 717
J2s 716
K4s 715
Q3s 715
95s 714
J8s 714
K9s 714
96s 712
75s 712
A5s 711
KJs 710
63s 708
Q4s 708
42s 706
Q2s 706
83s 706
K7s 705
65s 704
K5s 704
K3s 703
98s 702
AJs 700
A9s 700
86s 699
T2s 699
ATs 698
J4s 696
K8s 693
92s 692
Q9s 692
KQs 690
Q5s 688
72s 688
94s 686
KTs 684
J5s 684
A4s 683
Q7s 681
T9s 681
AKs 681
82s 680
84s 679
93s 674
J6s 673
QJs 672
T4s 669
A7s 667
32s 663
73s 662
T7s 660
Q6s 657
T8s 655
AQs 655
53s 654
A6s 654
QTs 630
A8s 627
232196
</pre><hr />

[Toro]

You must be new. This has been discussed many times. I predict you will be drawn and quartered at the very least for making this observation. Very taboo subject to some.

But learn to enjoy the bad beat.

[Webster]

LOL - I just had to say something - but, it's all been said. What can you do about these guys anyway.

I'd like to see stats on B&amp;M cards - has anybody ever looked at those? I think B&amp;M games are unrealistic.


How can a person say something is unrealistic when there is NOTHING to compare it to!

Personally I think online games are WAY more fair then B&amp;M games and I'm pretty sure more REAL Professionals would agree.

[asdf1234]

Yes, internet poker is unbeatable for all those who do not possess a pattern map. Search the archives for details on this valuable device.

[Toro]

Not expressing an opinion one way or the other. Only predicting he will be drawn and quartered is all.

[kylemontero]

LOL give me a break. then why do I win 85% of the days I play on party poker. When you go in with the best hand 90% of the time you will get outdrawn once in a while. If you are even a decent player you will win in the long run if you have any brains.

[Losing all]

I play a lot of hands on Party, every day, and I can only think of 1 KK vs AA over the last few days. For that matter I can't remember a big run of KK vs AA ever. Now I go on long runs of monsters being cracked regularly, but thats to q7sooted and the like, nature of the beast.

I'm not sure how big the pool of true experts telling you about the fraud is, but I'd guess they aren't really experts at all, and maybe borberline retarted.

[PITTM]

Thanks for the answers i guess? it seemed like i was ridiculed a little more than i might have hoped, but it seemed like a reasonable question to me. especially after the hands i lost.

rj

[Drunk Bob]

I have had a very very very bad day down by the river.


3 5 outers.


2 2 outers.


1 1 outer.



And even the 1200 to 1 runner-runner Quad 6s against my set of Aces.

Chit happenns.

Tomorrow is another day. It will be better.It better be! /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[daryn]

i think it's more like 989-1, not so bad now eh?

[Lori]

but it seemed like a reasonable question to me. especially after the hands i lost.

You got off lightly.

The reason people get touchy about this subject is because had you spent even an hour having a look around before posting, you would have noticed that there are many professional players here winning on party regularly, a little more digging would unearth the fact that this question is asked about once every ten days, and reading almost any thread at all should have prepared you for the rather sarcastic nature of this board.

Stay around, read a little, ask a little, but unless you have very solid backup, leave the conspiracy stuff until you've read what others have said about it.
We've heard it all before.

Lori

[Ulysses]

Obviously you work for an online casino.

[Ulysses]

They are way more fair for people like you who work for an online casino.

[Ulysses]

You work for an online casino and only won 85% of the time?

[Ulysses]

The KK over AA doesn't happen very often to people who work for online casinos.

[Ulysses]

I believe most of the people ridiculing you work for online casinos.

[Ulysses]

The only people who get touchy about this subject are people like you who work for online casinos.

[Ulysses]

Based on these results, it doesn't appear that you work for an online casino.

[soda]

Come on U.

It gets a little old.

And I don't work for online casinos. After reading this guys initial entry, I was like, here we go again.

Poker messes with your head. The beats are unbelievable! Unreal! OMG!

Don't worry. Party is on the up and up.

soda

PS - I'm not affiliated with Party in any way, except that I take massive amounts of money from the people who were stupid enough to catch AA when you had KK four times in a row.

[Drunk Bob]

I thought it was 1189 to 1? I may be wrong.

[Drunk Bob]

sure I do .Just doing a little reverse psychology PR.

[Dingo Puppet]

Partys cards are so rigged its pitiful. Thats why I only play at Empire.

[Diplomat]

Nice.

-Diplomat

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought it was 1189 to 1? I may be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

2/45*1/44=1/990 ~~ 989:1

[The WET BEAVER]

This might go on and on again like last time. Maybe it will reach 500+ replies.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
This might go on and on again like last time. Maybe it will reach 500+ replies.


[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. Now that pattern maps have been discredited, I think everyone pretty much knows online poker is legit.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
borberline retarted.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's funny.

[Hung]

Today i've been dealt pocket kings 4 times in sng's and went all in with a short stack all 4 times and got beat by pocket aces all 4 times

You know what? You're right!
I see AA vs KK all the time, and I think it's weird too. As long as I'm winning in the long run, I don't care, what happens. If I had my bad run the first time I played on party I would think the site is rigged. But I've played there for a year and winning every month thousands of dollars. Now I get these strange beats, but I can't believe it's rigged, because I've had good times. But I do understand your situation. A newcomer getting beat by impossible cards.
I had the exact same thing with Stars. I haven't played there since. But I'll go back one day. Maybe that day is today.

[woodman]

in the last 30 days (~125 hrs.) at party/empire playing 10-20 6 handed, 1 or 2 tables, I have lost 25 out of my last 30 AA's, mostly in head up pots. I have also won ~$6000

[Lori]

The only people who get touchy about this subject are people like you who work for online casinos

The only online casino I ever worked for was ProPoker, and I didn't work there as such, I just got 250% of the rake of each person that I referred.
I gave 150% kickback, which is 60% higher than Hoppy will give you and even then I ended up with all the rake.

Sadly they must have misapplied my business plan, as a few months later they were bust.

The only online casino I would like to work for now is 'Positions Vacant' or something like that, mentioned in a thread below.

Lori

[Fred Duke]

The simple fact that people win on Party Poker is totally decoupled from the issue of whether the cards fall honestly. The two are NOT dependent issues. Anyone that has a worldly experience playing poker will take a jaundiced view of the Party experience. It's mostly those with little or no outside exposure that assume all is right.

More frightening is the lock step defenders of this site and online poker in general. I guarantee you these defenders have zero evidence of any game's honesty.

[Losing all]

Damn! You just had to catch that. Nothin makes you look moor stupit then spelling instuls wrong.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
The simple fact that people win on Party Poker is totally decoupled from the issue of whether the cards fall honestly. The two are NOT dependent issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is true.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone that has a worldly experience playing poker will take a jaundiced view of the Party experience. It's mostly those with little or no outside exposure that assume all is right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I and many other friends of mine who play online poker have played thousands of hours of live poker. When you play enough live poker, you see everything there as well. It just happens a lot quicker online where (multi-tabling) you can get as many as 10x the hands in the same time period.

[ QUOTE ]
I guarantee you these defenders have zero evidence of any game's honesty.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the people who have analyzed huge databases of hands/boards to verify randomness of shuffle and distribution of cards? It has been done.

With hand histories and PokerTracker, you can analyze card distributions to a much greater degree than possible live. Many people play the equivalent of many years worth of B&amp;M hands online every year. If pocket pairs were being dealt more frequently or flush over flush was happening more times than should expected, why on earth isn't one of the tens of thousands of online players pointing this out?

[Puffin]

Partys cards are so rigged its pitiful. Thats why I only play at Empire.

haha I like that one.

[Fred Duke]

"What about the people who have analyzed huge databases of hands/boards to verify randomness of shuffle and distribution of cards? It has been done."

This does not guarantee fairness. To test for true fairness is almost impossible without examining the code. I can design easy software cheats that would likely defy detection. So could most any clever person.

I have caught one room cheating. Really simple stuff but it would not be detected by PT or most simple counting tests.

[GrannyMae]

I have caught one room cheating.

room, or player?

care to expound? if not, then stop throwing blanket, kook-ass statements like this around.

damn, why did you come back? just to spout dumbass shiit like this?

name the room, or stfu

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/v/biggrinshoot.gif

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it pretty much a given among experts that partypoker is an absolute fraud in terms of card distribution?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it is. The trick is to be the one who gets dealt AA every time someone has KK.

[Fred Duke]

I'm looking to make a buck on my research. I'm still unsure how to exploit it. I damn sure won't give it out for free to an ungrateful and unbelieving bunch such as you.

[JWise]

[ QUOTE ]
"What about the people who have analyzed huge databases of hands/boards to verify randomness of shuffle and distribution of cards? It has been done."


This does not guarantee fairness. To test for true fairness is almost impossible without examining the code. I can design easy software cheats that would likely defy detection. So could most any clever person.

I have caught one room cheating. Really simple stuff but it would not be detected by PT or most simple counting tests.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a thread killer the simple minds who post here will not have a defence for this.

As for AA vs KK to the fish it just seems like these hands are being dealt too many times because AAvsKK is one of the very few hands you are almost guaranteed a showdown.

[TimM]

My anti-cheat research is very simple. I keep playing on sites where I win, and I stop playing on sites where I lose. So far, I have not found any of the latter though. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Thythe]

It's funny that the only people who think Party Poker and other sites are rigged are "newbies" or just barely "members" and only come to try and take their crapiness at playing poker out on other people. In a week or so, 95% chance that we never hear from Fred Duke again. Go ahead and make your accusations and then run away and leave us to making money beating fools like you.

[Troy92]

[ QUOTE ]

As for AA vs KK to the fish it just seems like these hands are being dealt too many times because AAvsKK is one of the very few hands you are almost guaranteed a showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I feel like I am constantly defending online poker at the sports sites I frequent. I will have to use this argument.

[GrannyMae]

I'm looking to make a buck on my research. I'm still unsure how to exploit it. I damn sure won't give it out for free to an ungrateful and unbelieving bunch such as you.


let me get this straight. you already have nailed a site that has "rigged" the deal, and you are researching further so you can make some money off it? how much you looking for?

here is what you do. email the site you nailed and tell them you need 100k or you blow the whistle. seems like extortion, but since they are located overseas you won't be violating any laws. they would certainly pay you that for hush money.

if that does not work, then why not sell the story to some news source? do you know how much publicity a story that revealed something like this would generate?

hell, i guarantee you the city council in vegas would pay you a million dollars to present evidence that internet gambling is rigged. why not go that route?

how's your uncle btw? i asked before but you never answered. this IS the fred duke who's uncle is a grand wizard of the KKK, right? you and the klan still up to all that cross burning in between your kooky research?




http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/0/hanged.gif

[MicroBob]

"I'm looking to make a buck on my research. I'm still unsure how to exploit it."

it's already being exploited...it's called a pattern-map and i would be happy to sell one to you.

[Fred Duke]

Thank you for some forward going, intelligent thought. This is slippery stuff. The site could easily change their dealing code the minute I drop a dime on them. It takes time and statistical knowledge to understand exactly what a crooked deal looks like. Even then there is really no absolute proof. As an example, I have one data string that is 2.6 standard deviations from the expected mean. Is this proof positive? No, it's just damn curious and smells really ripe. I have lots of little pieces with small sample sizes that all look skewed and their small size is problematic when rigorous statistical methodology is applied. But they smell way wrong.

I like the Las Vegas idea. I though maybe go to a competetor and see if they'd chip in to bring someone down but once the information leaves my lips everything changes, all bets are off.

Uncle Duke is good. Just got out of LA prison.

[ewile]

Hi,
I'm a black, gay, Jewish online poker player and I just know that Party Poker is fixed!

[Poker blog]

2.6 standard deviations isn't even that big a deal.

Whoop-de-doo.

[GrannyMae]

Uncle Duke is good. Just got out of LA prison


did they let him wear his dress and pillowcase in there? give him my best, will ya? although i'm sure he figured out a way to become someone's bitch. you know what they say about those that protesteth too loud, right??

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/d0/suck.gif

[ewile]

that smiley cracked me up!

[Fred Duke]

I'm roughly 2.6 SDs smarter than average. It's a big deal, believe me.

[daryn]

i can see from this post you're 2.6 SD's funnier than average also.

[Drunk Bob]

250% of rake? No wonder they went bust!

[Drunk Bob]

Which One? I don't watch the news very often musta missed it.

[Lori]

In a week or so, 95% chance that we never hear from Fred Duke again.

Fred has been with us a long time and I'm pretty sure under more than one name /images/graemlins/wink.gif, he just only posts when he finds an opening.

Lori

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm roughly 2.6 SDs smarter than average. It's a big deal, believe me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Congratulations, your IQ is probably in the low 140's.

Come back when you're over 170.