KK and I wanna be like AKshawn

[stoxtrader]

I think U posted a similar hand...anyways, at least the guy had two pair. Maybe he had me pegged as a maniac.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, MP calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB folds, MP folds, Hero caps, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (5 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

River: (13 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

Final Pot: 21 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB shows Qd Kh (two pair, kings and queens).
Hero shows Kc Ks (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 21 BB. </font>

[Nate tha' Great]

Betto el floppo.

[Ulysses]

akshawnd would have bet that flop after it got capped pre-flop! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[doggin]

why not slowplay top set?
What about it guys, was he that far off to check top set?
Especially with no flush draw?

[NLSoldier]

when you cap PF and then check that flop, i hope i would trust my read enough to fold my top 2 into you on the turn before you get a chance to bet, that play screams KK /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Drunk Bob]

It may scream KK but SB needs a hearing aid.

[NLSoldier]

haha agreed, im not saying it was too bad of a play against a bad opponent, im just sayin if i was in SBs position i hope id see through it.

[stripsqueez]

i bet the flop

what hand are you representing when you check the flop and then raise the turn ? - how often do you see any player check such a flop after raising pre-flop ?

the big U generally represents a hand like AK that has run out of steam after missing the flop and still betting the flop and then checks the turn from an early position

"looketh like the rose but be the serpent under it" - i have said it before but lady macbeth would of been a sh1t hot poker player - the big U looks like a rose - you look a lot like a serpent

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
why not slowplay top set?
What about it guys, was he that far off to check top set?
Especially with no flush draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's little point in capping pre-flop then checking a flop that has a King and a Queen on it. If you have AhKh and the flop is three small hearts, checking is fine, since you could easily have missed w/ overcards. If you have 88 and the flop is 8-high, same thing.

But when there's a King and a Queen on the flop, it's not like your opponent is going to go crazy on the expensive streets if you check the flop and he has a small pair.

Since his opponent 3-bet pre-flop, there's a good chance he also caught a piece of this flop, another reason to bet.

[Nate tha' Great]

This hand provides a pretty good example of why slowplaying is pointless. THE SB WANTED TO CHECK-RAISE THIS FLOP. Players are very relucant to fold in these games after showing preflop strength themselves, so it's simply a matter of sacrificing a street's worth of bets while your ahead.

The only time I can see the play being worthwhile is if you're up against someone who:

(a) Just limped or called before the flop.
(b) Folds easily on the flop and beyond.
(c) Is dumb pluckin' stupid.

As it happens there is a strong inverse correlation between (b) and (c), so you'll rarely find the right opponent for it, and even then I'm reluctant to play it that way because if the message it sends to the other players at the table.

[Drunk Bob]

This may be results based, but this seems right for the slow play.

Top set on a drawless board with an apparent aggressive opponent.

The results speak for themselves.

Nice play. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[doggin]

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
The results speak for themselves.


[/ QUOTE ]

Any reason to think this opponent wouldn't be happy to cap on the flop in addition to the turn and river?

[Diplomat]

[ QUOTE ]
This may be results based, but this seems right for the slow play.

Top set on a drawless board with an apparent aggressive opponent.

The results speak for themselves.


[/ QUOTE ]

The results really do speak for themselves. Hero missed a few small bets in the hand. Remember the ol' keys to making a slowplay correct, -all- of which have to be met: Giving a free-card could make a weaker hand stronger and give you action consequently (no) but not beat you (ok, he cannot do that), the pot is small but could get large if you give someone some rope (no) and...yeah, I forgot the rest.

You slowplay because you fear your opponent will give you no action if you bet right away and fold a hand you would like him continue with. Results aside, he's probably calling down with any pair here, considering the pot size and the nature of 6-max games. Moreover, if you opponent is indeed aggressive, he will be more than willing to give you lots and lots of chips if he did hit the board, and will do so on all streets.

Bet the flop, otherwise you are losing money when you are winning.

-Diplomat

[Gramps]

Not totally drawless. You might give AT or AJ a free card to spike their inside straight. That would suck (though they'd probably call a flop bet in this PF capped pot).

This hand was a rare example, as it set up absolutely perfect. SB is thinking, "I can see two Queens and two Kings - I doubt this f-cker on the button has KK or QQ." (if he was thinking)

I don't think you can necessarily say that the flop check is what led to all the action on the later streets. Would have been some fireworks regardless on this hand.

[stoxtrader]

I disagree, and think I played it well, but I'm examining my thought process as it seems a number of posters I respect disagree with the play. Granted, my opponent had about the best hand I could hope for and *might* have capped all 3 streets with me in this particular hand, about the only hand I'd rather him have is QQ.

However, do you really think he caps the turn and river with top two if we go 4 bets on the flop? so if he check raises me on the flop, like he probably would have, what action can I possibly take to hide the strength of my hand, smooth call or three bet? Either way, I'm not so sure the turn and river go 4 bets.

If this hand was not heads-up, I certainly bet and raise flop. Heads-up I think it makes more sense to slowplay.

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop, otherwise you are losing money when you are winning.



[/ QUOTE ]

I'm always winning on the flop. I have the nuts. Are you saying I always make less money by playing it this way?

[Diplomat]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm always winning on the flop. I have the nuts. Are you saying I always make less money by playing it this way?


[/ QUOTE ]

Not always, but almost always, yes.

-Diplomat

[Ulysses]

By default, I'll probably just call the checkraise, but sometimes I'll 3-bet. Sometimes you'll make one big bet less (cap, cap, check-call for example), sometimes you'll win two more big bets (cap, cap, cap), sometimes it'll be a little different than that. But with KK v. KQ here, you're going to make a lot.

But most times he won't have KQ. Sometimes he'll have something that he's just going to call you down with. Other times he'll have AQ and will test you on the flop. Other times he'll have some random hand that will decide to bluff check-raise you and lead the turn. I want to give him the opportunity to take the initiative in this hand when he has a weak hand. When he has a strong hand, things will largely take care of themselves.

It's not like your check is really bad or anything. I just don't see much point in checking on a KQx flop after capping pre-flop. What purpose does it really serve?