Long shot hits, too passive?

[rivered]

I was playing $2/4 at Pacific, VERY loose and passive table. I called 22 UTG. This is because there was so many people in every hand. This isn't a play I make often but at this type of table flopping a set can pay huge.

Preflop: I'm UTG with 22
MP2 raises and 7 people call in total.

Flop: K /images/graemlins/club.gif, Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (7 players)
I check, MP2 raises and one player folds (may have been 2 fold but not many)

Turn: J /images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
I check again, MP2 bets and 1 more folds, the rest call.

River: K /images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
I check, MP2 bets, 2 call and I call (one player folds).
SB checks, slavic checks.

Final Pot: 19BB.


I hadn't seen the raiser be aggressive before this hand and certainly not any preflop raises. I loved the flop of course and with this many players in I don't think waiting until the river for a check raise is that bad. Most of these players are drawing dead and if they aren't, trust me, they aren't folding. So I'm not knocking anyone out who'll beat me on the river. I'm only taking out people who will call another river bet. The thing I was worried about was the raiser. I figured he either had AA, KK, QQ or maybe AK (although I figured against KK when the second K came up). I'm thinking I should have raised anyways but the board was very dangerous. I also figured that if, since there was one caller behind me, he may call. If I raise, he won't and most likedly MP2 is raising me back and everyone else folds. So, unless he has AK I'm paying 2 bets extra to him.

Results in white:

<font color="white"> </font>

[Tosh]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[bisonbison]

Dear sweet jesus, if you're not going to bet the flop, check-raise the turn. If you're not going to check-raise the turn, checkraise the river.

If you're not going to play sets aggressively, you should not be playing 2/4.

[Haupt_234]

Is there a typo here? Why aren't you betting?!?

Charity is just about the only better donation...

Haupt_234

[bernie]

Let me see if i have this right. 7 opponents see flop and you flop a set. You know theyll call multiple bets to the river. So you....

....dont bet!?!

This has to be one of the worst plays from flop to river ive seen in awhile. You left a ton of chips on the table on this one.

Im sure slavic appreciates this type of play at his table. I wish it would happen much more on mine.

Ugh.

b

btw....ever hear of a value bet?

[Bob T.]

Long shot hits, too passive?

Yes.

For the time being, I recommend that you stop playing 22 UTG. Not because it isn't playable in these games, but because you aren't going to be paid well enough when you do hit it, if this is how you usually play sets.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[pudley4]

Wait until the action is on you, then click "bet/raise". Then close your eyes. Wait until you hear the beep that announces it's your action again. Open your eyes and click "bet/raise". Close your eyes and wait. Repeat until you notice it's the river. If someone has bet into you, then call. If no one has bet, then bet and call a raise.

In the long run, playing it this way you'll come out ahead vs playing it the way you did on this hand.

[Bob T.]

Only use pudley's suggestion if you are playing one table. If you are playing two or more, make sure you are playing the correct table before employing this plan.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[sfer]

Won't that be a tell if I'm playing live?

[James Boston]

Be in there betting and raising, not checking and calling. A set, especially one that small, is better off winning the pot immediately. Slowplaying is too risky.

[joker122]

I've only been posting here for a few months, but that's the most passive, and maybe the worst, played hand I've ever seen.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
Be in there betting and raising, not checking and calling. A set, especially one that small, is better off winning the pot immediately. Slowplaying is too risky

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm....

I'd be pretty pissed if I won the pot right there. You should be too.

scrub

[Tosh]

I don't think I've ever been pissed to win any pot.

[rivered]

I have to be honest. I should have bet the river. However, these players will call one bet forever with nothing and fold to 2 bets. I'm not going to bet people out, get heads up and win half as much money. It may be risky but if you think winning 76 bucks at a 2/4 table is leaving a lot of money on the table I really don't think that's the case and I'd love to know where you are playing. I don't understand that you don't change your style against bad chasers, raising people out who have almost zero chance of beating you just doesn't seem smart to me. If I was playing decent players or there were less in the hand I'd play it totally different.

[Bob T.]

I have to be honest. I should have bet the river. However, these players will call one bet forever with nothing and fold to 2 bets. I'm not going to bet people out, get heads up and win half as much money.

You never had to face them with two bets. You were acting right before the bettor, and you could have checkraised either the flop, or the turn. The turn checkraise was as close to free money as you will get at the table. When you say, you won $76 so you couldn't have left much on the table, you are just playing results, just like players who want to change the river card, or want their hand back after they see the flop. The fact is, you probably left at a minimum two or three bets on the table here.

You didn't like it, that people judged your play harshly, but you played the hand terribly, and they were doing you a favor by telling you as much. Following the advice you got in this thread will make you more money in the future when you are fortunate enough to flop a set.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[rivered]

My read on the player is that he would reraise, knocking everyone else out. I also feel that earlier talk about reraising the flop is a much worse way to play against passive players.

[bernie]

If you wouldve gotten your set cracked, which is very possible with the board on the turn as far as draws available, you minimized your gain on the hand when you had the best of it. But then youd probably say you saved money by playing it passively.

Again, this was a terrible play with a set. But it's your chips and your roll, play as you see fit. The consensus is about unanimous. Why is that? We're all out of our minds?

b

[pudley4]

Let's go point by point:

[ QUOTE ]
I have to be honest. I should have bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not the way you played it. After getting to the river, you should have check-raised.

[ QUOTE ]
However, these players will call one bet forever with nothing and fold to 2 bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you checkraise at any point in the hand, you are only facing them with one more bet. If they called the first, they'll call the second.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to bet people out, get heads up and win half as much money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why you check-raise when the bettor is on your immediate left.

[ QUOTE ]
It may be risky but if you think winning 76 bucks at a 2/4 table is leaving a lot of money on the table I really don't think that's the case and I'd love to know where you are playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

In this hand, you left a lot of money on the table. You can't just throw out the number $76 and say "Look at this huge pot I won, I did good". You have to put it in context. Winning a $76 pot heads-up is huge. Winning a $76 pot when you flop a set after seeing the flop 7 ways, the turn 6 ways and the river 5 ways is terrible.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand that you don't change your style against bad chasers, raising people out who have almost zero chance of beating you just doesn't seem smart to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

You said they'd call if they had any chance "Most of these players are drawing dead and if they aren't, trust me, they aren't folding." No one here was advocating betting out to get raised to try to knock people out.

[ QUOTE ]
If I was playing decent players or there were less in the hand I'd play it totally different.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, the more people that are in the pot, the more you should be betting and raising, to try to knock out the backdoor draws that are getting correct odds to call. The fewer players in the pot, the more you should be likely to slowplay; since there are fewer players, there is less likelyhood of those draws being out there.

One more point:

I know you're new here, but bernie usually posts about 6 different ways you could have played a hand - "you could do this, or sometimes you could do this, but other times you might think about this..." When he comes out and says you absolutely-100%-no-doubt-about-it played a hand wrong - you played the hand wrong.

[pudley4]

BTW, we're all assuming you won the hand. However, I don't see the results anywhere. What hands did your opponents have?