The recent trend of smooth calling aces and kings preflop

[ApolloQuiet]

I've seen it on the Party 3/6 games a lot recently, probably 10 or so times in my last 7-8 sessions. From all positions, they just call the bb pf, sometimes will smooth call a raise pf. Then they either check raise the flop or the turn. Anyone else been noticing this trend, and does it have +EV, is it a play to use more in my play as a deceptive play?

[Nate tha' Great]

The smooth coldcall is the new limp reraise. 3-betting is so passe.

[deacsoft]

Don't buy in to this trend. Just because players are doing it doesn't make it the right play. It may work sometimes but in the long run you are loosing bets and playing incorrectly. It's a play that should be used once in a great while at most.

[ApolloQuiet]

I use it now in the SB or BB if a player in CO or Button is on a steal, then try and check raise later on. As for the overall trend, it seems a little to weak because its too risky to let a player in and flop a monster, or a nice draw, and then catch it on turn or river. It happens so much online, I would think it best to raise with them in order to build a big pot with best hand, or narrow the field.

[Saborion]

Smooth-calling a raise with Aces might have some value, since you make more money the more people is in the pot. Sure, you lose more often, but when you win, you stand to win more. Or am I way off again?

[Vehn]

Everyone's just copying (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=holdem&Number=392767&Forum =holdem&Words=vehn&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Lim it=1000&Old=allposts&Main=392767&Search=true#Post3 92767) me.

[ApolloQuiet]

They've taken it to the next level, by calling the BB, not even settling for a coldcall of a raise. I see your play as profitable in certain situations, but I don't get just calling the BB with AA or KK.

[squiffy]

Yes, it's called letting trash hands see the flop cheaply and not raising with the best hand. Great in no limit where your deception can make you a huge profit. Perhaps not as good in limit.

[astroglide]

i play exclusively 15/30 at partypoker. here's how i play aa/kk:

openraise: utg/utg+1
openlimp: any later position
raise: any number of limpers
cold-call: if there are no cold-callers in-between me and the raiser
reraise: if there is at least 1 cold-caller in-between me and the raiser

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
openraise: utg/utg+1
openlimp: any later position

[/ QUOTE ]

Are these backwards?

[MicroBob]

there are some who advocate this...abdul is one of them...
whether you agree with it is up to you but i believe abdul would argue that in certain types of games this kind of play may be +ev.
for the record, i like what abdul has to say but i typically raise-out with these types of hands. i'm aggressive enough pre-flop where you would have to be pretty observant to make accurate assumtions.


here's some snippets from abdul's website.


"AA is worth about four times the blinds if it gets some action, so stealing the blinds with it and your other very strong hands is a major disaster. Without other concerns, in a tight game you should raise with marginal hands, and limp (and usually reraise if raised) with your strongest hands"


"Tight Game Opening Strategy

Raise and call 2
QQ JJ TT KQs KTs JTs

Raise and call 1
77 QJs KJs AQ AJ

Limp-reraise / raise & call
AKs AQs AK

Limp & call 1
66 55 A9s A8s A7s KQ

Limp-reraise
AA KK 99 88 AJs ATs

Note: "Call 1" means call one raise back, fold for two, and similarly for "Call 2." When two ways to play are listed, separated by a slash (/), do them each 50% of the time or adjust depending on the texture of the game. In general, you should mix up your play a bit on all hands. Because players tend to put you on AA or KK when you limp-reraise, often refrain from carrying through with the reraise when you wind up heads-up. Some plays are "sacrifice plays" for the sake of balance, such as limping with KQ in early position when in isolation raising would be better and folding would be best. Other plays are profitable only in context, such as being able to play 55 early under the cover of the limp-reraising hands. Beware reraising when the raise comes from the blinds, as few players will raise from the blinds without holding QQ-AA or AKs."

[daryn]

anyone else sick of abdul?

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
anyone else sick of abdul?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only when people try to apply his standards to games that they don't really apply to. Unfortunately, I think that is quite a large % of the games out there.

[t_petrosian]

Well, two things are in play here - how tight/loose the game is and your position. If you are in late position, and everyone has folded to you (tight game), it is my opinion that you should limp. If the opposite occurs, that being late position and several calls to you (loose game), you should probably play this hand straight forward. After all, if there are 4 people in the pot and you all see the flop, you are now a dog. Early position is more of a question, but I think the same rules apply (except now you have to figure how people will play as opposed to actually seeing how they play). In NL in early position, I think ideal is limping, having one caller and one raiser, then raising when it comes back to you. Then on the flop, unless it terrifies you, come out betting heavily into the raiser.

[Webster]

gott ditto deacsoft (but not because he's from Madison)

[astroglide]

no. i've found that utg/utg+1 raises are bound to get called, but it's less likely in later positions.

[MicroBob]

"If you are in late position, and everyone has folded to you (tight game), it is my opinion that you should limp"


don't the blinds usually put you on a steal attempt if you raise in late position??
i'm not the greatest player in the world but this is the logic i have subscribed to.


if anything, an early-position limp-reraise seems justified if you think an UTG raise will scare everyone away.