MG locks up with the Plumber $6-$12 @ the Borgata..what did I have?

[Mike Gallo]

I had the following hand Saturday at a live $6-$12 game at the Borgata. I had poster Sfer to my immediate right and poster AviD to my immediate left for this hand.

I found this hand pretty interesting so I decided to post it.

I limp on the button with two cards after about 5 limpers.

Flop Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

The plumber bet two people called. The action came to me and I called.

Turn A /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

The Plumber bet everyone folded to me and I raised. The Plumber thought a bit and folded. Sfer looked at me and said "broadway' and I said nope and flipped the cards face up after the Plumber folded.

What did I have?

[bunky9590]

QJs or A2s (with A2s, bring much more prevalent) Near as I can tell.

Good to see you again Mikey. Hope next session is better.

[Mike Gallo]

Hope next session is better.

This session didnt go that bad /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[AviD]

LOL that was me Bunky! /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Haha, next session will be better! :P

[sfer]

Minor correction, I said "Broadway's good." But wrong nonetheless. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Hey Bunky, I heard your name called on Friday and Sat but I didn't track you down. Next time...

[bunky9590]

Sorry I didn't get to spend more time with you guys. I would have really liked to.

Next time just page me if you cant find me. its no sweat. Gallo knew where I was. (He was giving me crap for being to laggy)

[bunky9590]

We'll hook up again. No Problem.

You hear when they called me for the 60-120? That was classic.

My whole 10-20 game snapped their heads around to me at once.

Did wonders for the image.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
You hear when they called me for the 60-120? That was classic.

[/ QUOTE ]


I thought I heard that while I was checking out the yellow chip game and I nearly fell over. But there was another dude called Monkey who kept getting called to large games so I was never really sure. You would have crushed that game with the right bankroll. I watched the 60/120 for 10 minutes and saw 3 hands with 5 limpers to an unraised flop.

[Lottery Larry]

flush draw with a King- KJ or KQ?

[sthief09]

I'm going to reason through this, so bear with me. I like questions like this. They challenge me. I don't know much about the Plumber other than what I've read in posts, so I don't know what special care

- Limping pre-flop doesn't really narrow it down much, as you could probably make a case for limping with 50% of all hands
- you could've raised a flush draw on the turn
- I don't think you would've slowplayed on the flop with anything
- It seems as though the fact that the turn got it heads up with the Plumber induced you to raise
- It's also possible you improved on the turn
- I don't think you have an ace, because you would've raised preflop with a suited ace and I don't think you would have limped with a hand like ATo (though this seems more and more likely). Maybe AJo?
- I was thinking Q /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif would make sense, but I think you would've popped the flop with top pair.

so after this, I think that you caught a flush draw on the turn. The only hands I think you'd raise on the turn are a pair of aces (which you would've raised-Axs-or folded-Axo-preflop, with the exception of AJo), a pair of queens (I think you would've raised the flop), a pair of jacks (I don't think you'd raise the turn or call the flop with this), or a flush draw. So I've narrowed it down to:

- flush draw
- AJo

in order for you to have a flush draw, you had to have caught a pair on the flop, either Q's or 2's. since Q's are the top pair, I think you would've raised your top pair plus backdoor flush draw on the flop, so that leaves deuces. The only hand you'd limp with preflop with a deuce in it here is K /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif. So now it's narrowed down to:

- AJo
- K /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif
- the outside possibility that you didn't raise top pair on the flop, and picked up a flush draw with Q /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif or Q /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif on the turn (I don't think this is probably)


For the sake of going with the less likely, I'm going to put my money on K /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif, but I think it's also probable you had AJo

now taht I read your post again, you showed the table your hand. I don't think you would've showed the table K /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif here, so I've swayed back toward AJo, specifically A /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[AviD]

np, next time we'll hook up a session! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

"Bunky for 60/120, Bunky for 60/120...ROLL ME!" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Was a good tip from whoever said that! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[MaxPower]

A2 of clubs or spades. Every other hand you would play like this, you would have raised pre-flop.

[sthief09]

The A /images/graemlins/club.gif is out

you don't think he'd raise A2s preflop with 5 limpers?

[Mike Gallo]

I dont think anyone will get this so I will post the hand I had now.

When SFer turned to me and said "Broadway good", I laughed to myself that I must have the image of a player who only bets and raises with the nuts.

I wanted to show SFer my hand, however if I show one I must show all. I showed him Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif and took it down.

I do not think he expected me to play the hand like that. Anyone care to comment on the play?

[AviD]

I do have one comment...

[ QUOTE ]
I limp on the button with two cards after about 5 limpers

[/ QUOTE ]

I often limp with 2 as well, sometimes shoot for 3 but dealers don't cooperate very often and rarely with 1 unless its a misdeal. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mike Gallo]

- the outside possibility that you didn't raise top pair on the flop, and picked up a flush draw with Q T or Q 9 on the turn (I don't think this is probably)

So /images/graemlins/tongue.gif close.

[btspider]

I put you on Q /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif (mostly a guess, lucky i was even close). Knowing the actual hand, I would now figure you are changing gears a bit (perhaps the broadway comment confirms your solid table image) and passing up on a free card play to semi-bluff the turn if you pick up a flush or straight draw*. If you win without a showdown, then you keep your image. If you lose a (likely cheap) showdown, you gain a bluff ad without costing you much $$.

*EDIT: i was thinking QT, not Q8

[Mike Gallo]

Knowing the actual hand, I would now figure you are changing gears a bit

Considering the junk my opponents played, Q 8 suited had the potential to become a monster.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

My guess had been K-crap suited, which I thought you might limp with after 5 limpers.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
I said nope and flipped the cards face up after the Plumber folded.


[/ QUOTE ]

I hate this. Information is valueable in this game, make players pay for it.

To me this is ego getting in the way of good poker. You want 2+2'ers to say, "MG in NJ can really play".

PS - I hope you take this as it's intended and not as being harsh. What do others think about showing bluffs?

[scrub]

While I think it's bad business in general, it's pretty EV neutral at the Borg 6/12.

The ones that aren't blowing bubbles with their spit, staring at the drink waitresses, watching the game that they the have the over on on TV, or asleep, will not be particularly surprised to see Q8s, and will no doubt have forgotten the hand by the next deal, when they will be dealt two cards, think 'oooohhhh....shiny..." and limp.

scrub

[Mike Gallo]

What do others think about showing bluffs?

What bluff? Against the plumber I most likely had the best hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I do however agree with what you said. I do concede that I did not have to show the bluff. Of course now some players know that I do bluff.

To me this is ego getting in the way of good poker. You want 2+2'ers to say, "MG in NJ can really play".

Funny how things get construed over a message board. Never my intention however it would certainly appear that way so I do see your point.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course now some players know that I do bluff.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, don't know if that's good or not. I'm never sure how players will react to information, so I try not to give them any more than I have to.

[ QUOTE ]
Never my intention

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I'm convinced.

[Lottery Larry]

I was wrong about the King but right about the flush draw and middle pair.

I'm a little surprised that you didn't raise on the Queen flop. I understand why you did on the turn.

If you had raised the flop and then someone raised you on the turn and the flush doesn't improve you, do you call them?