Fold my Kings?

[bosoxfan]

The first hand in a 5+1 NL on party. I'm mid position with KK. One limper and the player to my right pushes all in. I think Ax is more probable than AA but I fold my kings and no one calls. Should I have called?

[La Brujita]

Short answer: hell yes.

[esknights]

definitely call

[PrayingMantis]

Folding here is a huge mistake. That's about the best scenario you can hope for, early on with KK.

P.S,

As was mentioned few times in another thread here ("questions for the pro"), you better not play the 5+1. The vig is much too high.

[aslowjoe]

When I first starting playing the same situation arose. I folded. Somebody else called. The hands KJs and TT. I still feel stupid and do not plan on doing that ever again.

[CharlieFox]

Call, especially considering the fact that it's $5+1 on Party, where people seem to go all-in for a song. He might not even had Ax... could've been a lower pair, or even less. There's only one starting hand that's better than yours. Fortune favors the bold! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[bosoxfan]

I thought it was a bad play. Thanks for the input.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Given the propensity of people to try to trap with AA, I'd call with KK without thinking twice.

[tripdad]

i hesitate to go all in w/anything except AA on 2nd hand, simply for the fact that i want to win the tourney. my chances are better than average w/KK, but why risk it all so early? you can get sucked out on very easily, or you could be against AA.

how'd you do in the game?

cheers!

[La Brujita]

tripdad,

I am not trying to be rude but was your post made in jest or seriously?

We all are trying to win and maximize ev. Getting sucked out means you had the best of it going in. That is what we always strive to do. An opponent having aa is pretty unlikely, I am hoping someone can tell us the percentages.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
i hesitate to go all in w/anything except AA on 2nd hand, simply for the fact that i want to win the tourney. my chances are better than average w/KK, but why risk it all so early? you can get sucked out on very easily, or you could be against AA.

how'd you do in the game?

cheers!


[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't the WSOP. There's always another game to be had. I'd push in every time.

[heyrocker]

I forget who posted this link recently, but its incredibly useful:

http://www.pokerupdate.com/pokerodds.htm

Anyways I ran the math, and ran it past a math major friend of mine, who pointed out an error, and fixed it for me. Without going into the details, the chances of someone having AA and KK at the same ten person table is around 1 in 521. This is, be extension, the odds for any two people having any two specific pocket pairs (excepting them both having the same pair.)

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
I forget who posted this link recently, but its incredibly useful:

http://www.pokerupdate.com/pokerodds.htm

Anyways I ran the math, and ran it past a math major friend of mine, who pointed out an error, and fixed it for me. Without going into the details, the chances of someone having AA and KK at the same ten person table is around 1 in 521. This is, be extension, the odds for any two people having any two specific pocket pairs (excepting them both having the same pair.)

[/ QUOTE ]

THis information, while true, is VERY misleading you're forgetting that someone ALREADY HAS KK here, so all that needs to be figured for is whether or not someone else has AA, which is about 25-1

[juris]

Even taking the odds at 25:1, which I don't think is "all" you have to calculate b/c you know you have KK, those odds are good enough for a push 100 times out of 100.

[Stagemusic]

This could not have been serious. If you are playing that tight I would bet the ranch you are seeing many more 3rd and 4ths than 1sts and 2nds. Absolute Call IMO. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[heyrocker]

Yes, this is a good point. He still should have called though.

[Gar Pike]

One concept I've found useful is asking myself, "Does he want me to call or fold?", and then be more inclined to do the opposite. With a PF all-in, I would think he wanted me to fold. I have seen mmany many more cases of opponents playing AA slow to induce bets/calls/bluffs than of raising them hard trying to force people out. That's giving an unknown opponent the benefit of the doubt, capability-wise, and it could be the wrong move, but if you're wrong, you're wrong, make a note and move on.

Regards,

Gar

[Daliman]

Oh, make no mistake, I say call here.