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TwoOuter
04-11-2004, 12:05 PM
Just wondering how others would view this decision. It occurred around 3:30 am at a 6-12 table.

2 players in as the river card is dealt. First player bets. 2nd player lifts up his cards to eye level and one of the cards falls off to his side and onto the floor. Before anyone says anything, he leans down, picks it up, and says "raise."

The first player says your hand is dead. The 2nd player says no way. A floorman is called over, and he rules that the hand is not dead. Chaos and arguing ensues, but the decision stands.

I don't know if it matters, but the game was very casual and friendly- most of the players seemed to know each other, and everyone seemed to be letting a lot of things go, such as chip passing. One player occasionally picked up the cards folded pre-flop by the player to his right, added them to his hand, and made such witty remarks as "This is a great Omaha hand" before mucking. Nobody was complaining, and the atmosphere was great. Both players involved in the hand appeared to know the floorman.

Is this a standard ruling? Thanks for any feedback.

TwoOuter
04-11-2004, 12:10 PM
Also: The floorman asked Player 1 if he wanted to call the raise. He called it. Player 2 did have the best hand.

andyfox
04-11-2004, 08:21 PM
Same thing happened at Commerce the other day, with the same decision: the hand was live. I believe the rulebook probably says the hand is dead, but the deck is counted down after each hand, so there is no danger of cheating by dropping a card on the floor.

TwoOuter
04-11-2004, 09:37 PM
Thanks for the reply, Andy. I also think the likelihood of someone trying to pulling a fast one and getting away with it were minimal. It was interesting, though, how some of the players were absolutely sure the ruling was incorrect.

andyfox
04-11-2004, 11:33 PM
I think the letter of the ruling is indeed incorrect, but it's often not enforced. I also saw this recently: A guy bet and was called. He flipped up his cards dramatically; they were two aces. One of them did a complete 360 and ended up face down touching the muck. A few of us saw it was indeed an ace (to go with his other ace). The card was clearly identifiable and retrievable from the muck. The player retrieved it and turned it up: the ace we saw. His opponent called the floorman over and when the dealer correctly explained what happened, the pot was awarded to the correct player, the guy with the aces.

It might be that a literal reading of the rules would have resulted in the card being dead, but then the pot would have ben awarded to the wrong person. Common sense is often uncommon, but should sometimes be applied in such cases.