Beat by a bad player -- hmm..

Ok, this one's bugging me because I misread, and lost a few extra bets -- maybe even more than a few. How badly did I play this?


I'm in the SB with A7 clubs. MP, LP and Button Limp. I complete and five see the flop.


Flop [7d 6c 5c]. Checked to button who bets. This player will bet with anything, and is very loose. I raise hoping to get it heads up with him. MP and button call the raise and three of us see the turn.


Turn [7d 6c 5c] [4h]. I bet out. I don't think this will get the button to fold, but I think it will scare off the MP and get me heads up. Strong possiblity of button holding overcards. The MP folds and button calls.


River [7d 6c 5c 4h] [4c]. I think I messed up very bad here. I look at my made flush and I start to "make up" hands that the button can hold. I check-raise here as I think he will try and represent the made flush when he's holding the str8. So, he bets, I raise, he re-raises. Should I fold here? I call. Should I have just check-called, or is that results oriented?


What would you do on this river? What's your read?


No need for me to post the results on a separate post as I gave away what's happened -- He shows 54o full house. Was his turn play good, or was I just dumb?

you made the right move, nothing you can do about it, when he caught runner runner....sometimes bad beats happen.....what are you doing to do?

I would normally bet out a top pair with top kicker especially with a nut flush draw and bet out on the turn. Completing my flush on the river but with the board pairing, I will still bet out and make a crying call if raised.


I had a similar situation but with a worse board against a decent player, got raised and I re-raised. Lost to a FH (I think to a T4o) and got flamed when I posted it. But, that's poker.

Normally, I would do this as well. I thought the board was too scary to do this. My thought was that if I had to call a couple of bets cold with only two opponents, I was done. I would likely call a single early bet, with decent odds of making my nut flush. I would make the calculation of needing around 5-1 for the flop bet -- I like +EV and round up to make my calculations a little easier.


And, if I had an opportunity to get it heads up by check-raising I would. I thought I had a better opportunity against one player than four. Was this correct when I'm drawing to the flush?

You made a bad mistake here. Once the river was up, you check-raise (Correct) - he raises (Correct) - then you RAISE?? No No No. Big mistake. At that point you should have called. As they say, you were pushing the boat out too far. His turn play was excellent and he suckered you.

I think you played it fine. I would maybe bet out the flop instead of checkraising, but there's a decent chance you're ahead on the flop despite your nut flush draw anyways and the checkraise maximizes the chance of you winning without it coming in.


On the river I would have just bet and called a raise. His turn play probably indicates a 2 pair/set (or worse) since he appears to be afraid of the straight, but he could be slowplaying 98 or god knows what - there's a lot he'll raise with here that you can beat, but very few things he'll 3 bet with on the river, and I don't think folding to a 3rd bet is an option.


His turn call with a probable 4 outs was terrible unless he had a good read on you.

yep , he had the full...youd have heard from the str8 on the turn.


on the river, i might bet out then call the raise. i wouldnt be check raising here though...


gotta like the player who plays 54os though...


b

I'm thinking betting the river would have been my best option and saved a bet.


For sure he didn't have a read on me. He was constantly calling down with bottom/mid pair. I think he was thinking I had made the str8 -- hence his call on the turn. More I think about this, I don't think it was a brilliant read & play. Read that post on what The Old Woman was thinking and I think it would apply here. Just too sophisticated a play from someone who was playing these starting cards and calling down to the river with bottom/mid pair.


And I got into FPS at the end. With this guy, I think a straight forward play at the end would have been best.


Thanks!

As I replied to Coz, upon reflection I don't think the turn play was excellent. I did when I originally posted -- hence the "subject". Hey, was it you I was up against?


Seeing the responses, and assessing my play, my check-raise at the end was poor. I was winning earlier and getting too fancy.


The turn play of my opponent gave me a loud and clear signal he did not have a str8. I should have suspected two-pair, as he would not have called my turn bet with the strength I showed on the flop/turn. Clearly on the river the guy had a boat. If I bet out, I could have even folded to a raise. It pissed me off that I didn't listen to my read because I was too busy looking at my flush.


I think a better play by my opponent would have been a turn raise. That would have told me he made the str8. And, he would have heard from me if I had the str8 he suspected. Then when the FH comes, it's likely going to get capped. But then again, you (my opponent) were up against someone suffering from FPS (fancy play syndrome) -- so any turn play would have been brilliant!


Nice win BTW!!!

This may not be a good thing for you, but That's exactly how I would have played it. I wouldn't think I was behind until the re-raise at the end, and I would have called that too. I never can put people on 4-5.

>I'm in the SB with A7 clubs. MP, LP and Button

>Limp. I complete and five see the flop.


Good.


>Flop [7d 6c 5c]. Checked to button who bets.

>This player will bet with anything, and is very

>loose. I raise hoping to get it heads up with

>him. MP and button call the raise and three of

>us see the turn.


I would bet this flop and not checkraise the button's bet. Do you really want gutshots to fold? I'd rather that A9 stay in. And maybe you'll get to 3-bet if you bet and someone raises you. Having said that I don't think it's terrible to checkraise since you'll get overcard draws to fold. Maybe it's just a stylistic difference.


>Turn [7d 6c 5c] [4h]. I bet out.


I wonder why noone has pointed out that this is a bad mistake. On the turn, check with outs and bet with no outs just like S&M tell you to do. If you are beat by the straight here, you will be raised and you will wish you hadn't bet.


>The MP folds and button calls.


So noone has a straight. You got lucky.


>River [7d 6c 5c 4h] [4c]. I think I messed up

>very bad here. I look at my made flush and I

>start to "make up" hands that the button can

>hold. I check-raise here as I think he will try

>and represent the made flush when he's holding

>the str8. So, he bets, I raise, he re-raises.

>Should I fold here? I call. Should I have just

>check-called, or is that results oriented?


You can bet-call. You should bet and not checkraise, for sure.


>What would you do on this river? What's your

>read?


He could have had a 4 and flopped some nasty straight draw and rivered just trips and decided he somehow has you beat? He could just be a live player? Or he could have you beat? Or he could have turned a straight that he 'slowplayed'? You should bet and call a raise.


>Was his turn play good, or was I just dumb?


His turn play was ok. He may think his two pair was good enough and if not he may still improve to beat you. The confluence of these two possibilities is enough for him to call your turn bet.

Aaron, I knew there was something else bugging me about this hand but couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks for the post.


I mentioned earlier I had been biten by the FPS bug, and I showed over-aggression on the turn. I think I need to re-read a book soon. Thanks for pointing out my blunder on the turn. I think a stronger player with two-pair would have raised me here. And, as you mention a str8 would have popped me. Since I wanted to see the river, a check on the turn would have been much better.

I don't try to isolate when I have a nut flush draw because I want the ones with lower flush or pairs to stay. Remember, suited cards play well in multi-handed pots.