Proof that online games are still good.

[ApolloQuiet]

For those of us running bad recently, here's a little reason why we keep coming back.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Results below: <font color="black">
Hero shows Ah Th (two pair, aces and threes).
CO shows 7h 6h (one pair, threes).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.50 BB. </font>

[paland]

No offense but... Your current run must be really, really bad to have this hand as a saving grace. This is just a run of the mill average hand.

[ApolloQuiet]

Yes, run of the mill, but check out that call he made on the river.

[astroglide]

getting called by 7-high is not run of the mill

[LondonBroil]

It's not even 7 high. The caller is playing board.

[paland]

[ QUOTE ]
getting called by 7-high is not run of the mill

[/ QUOTE ]
It is at Party Poker.

[GrannyMae]

can someone please tell me how to access the 'converter'?

when i click on the link in the converted posts, it takes me to a broken page.

i want to post something using it. this thing came out in my hiatus and have no clue what i am doing wrong.

tyvm

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/m/weedsmilie.gif

[ApolloQuiet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
getting called by 7-high is not run of the mill

[/ QUOTE ]
It is at Party Poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, if only that were true.

[ApolloQuiet]

Try this:

http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi

[GrannyMae]

ok, screw it. i used this old converter.

i can't explain the river call in your example apollo, but this one is easier to explain. it took me a bit to understand the call. i was searching for a reason beyond the obvious 2 (chip dumping.. not likely in a 3-6, or player wanting to see the cards so bad that he paid off that last raise). i could not beleive that he paid off with 10 high when the board looked like that.

THEN, it popped in my head what happened. (my OPINION in white below)

Game #00000000 - $3/$6 Texas Hold'em - 2004/04/09-00:00:00 (CST)

Table "Atiu (5 max)" (real money) -- Seat 5 is the button

Seat 1: Player1 ($261.00 in chips)

Seat 2: Player2 ($95.00 in chips)

Seat 3: Player3 ($441.00 in chips)

Seat 4: Player4 ($44.00 in chips)

Seat 5: Player5 ($61.00 in chips)

Player1: Post Small Blind ($1)

Player2: Post Big Blind ($3)

Dealing...

Dealt to Player5 [ Td ]

Dealt to Player5 [ Qc ]

Player3 : Fold

Player4: Call ($3)

Player5: Call ($3)

Player1: Fold

Player2: Check

*** FLOP *** : [ 6d Jd Jc ]

Player2: Bet ($3)

Player4: Raise ($6)

Player5: Fold

Player2: Call ($3)

*** TURN *** : [ 6d Jd Jc ] [ Ks ]

Player2: Check

Player4: Bet ($6)

Player2: Call ($6)

*** RIVER *** : [ 6d Jd Jc Ks ] [ Kd ]

Player2: Bet ($6)

Player4: Raise ($12)

Player2: Call ($6)

*** SUMMARY ***

Pot: $56 | Rake: $2

Board: [ 6d Jd Jc Ks Kd ]

Player1 lost $1 (folded)

Player2 bet $27, collected $56, net +$29 (showed hand) [ 6h Tc ] (two pair, kings and jacks)

Player3 didn't bet (folded)

Player4 lost $27 (showed hand) [ 8d 7h ] (two pair, kings and jacks)

Player5 lost $3 (folded) [ Td Qc ] (two pair, kings and jacks)


quick! before you drag this to blue, why did he make that river call??

did you get it right immediately? if so, you are better than me.


<font color="white"> i think the call of that river raise with 10 high was due to the fact that this caller was unaware that the river counterfited his 2pr. this is also the reason i wanted the converter because he is now on my fish list. it also agrees with your post that some online players have zero grasp of certain hand reading abilities that we all learned in our diapers. i hope this player moves up in limit BEFORE he realizes what he still has to learn.

i was on the waiting list for a SNG when i played this hand and was called to it right after. i have no other notes on him, and only played 2 hands there. funny thing is that i sent this HH to support to look for chip-dumping and they did a full investigation which showed no pattern for that. even support did not realize it was the case of the overlooked counterfit.

i'll bet this player STILL does not know how lucky he was. he probably thinks his original 2pr won. i LOVE online poker. woooooo</font>



http://bestanimations.com/Animals/Fish/Fish-04.gif

[TimTimSalabim]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not even 7 high. The caller is playing board.

[/ QUOTE ]

That actually makes it a little better. Now he can split the pot on a lot of hands you might be bluffing or semibluffing with (e.g. if you had Th9h). Still a bad call, but by no means the worst seen online.

[Lazymeatball]

The fact that people still limp in EP with AT proves to me that online games are good /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[daryn]

come on now, in the typical low limit games on party i will limp utg with ATs almost every time. remember what i said, typical low limit game on party. sometimes they get too aggro and i wouldn't recommend the play. also the original poster was utg+1 /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ApolloQuiet]

Limping with ATs is not a bad play, IMO. Especially when the game is as passive as that particular game was.

[ApolloQuiet]

It still makes no sense at all, a call on the river with the hopes of splitting the pot at best, if that was indeed his reasoning, is awful.

[Izverg04]

This is nothing. There is a whole range of hands that you can split. I am still the record holder (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=586161) for inducing a bad call. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Only 1 hand that I could have that would split the pot, the lowly 32. Any other hand, and he loses. Looking over that hand again, I now think that SCHIZOID wasn't sure if he had a straight, so he called. Think about it: you think you might have a straight but you are not sure. So a raise is out of the question, but a call becomes +EV. /images/graemlins/ooo.gif SCHIZOID only needed 10% doubt that he might have a straight to make that call.

[Tosh]

I agree hero should raise here.

[Lazymeatball]

not the worst of limps. I'm probably just nitpicking because I would fold because I don't feel that I'm good enough to play it profitably. If your pokertracker stats show you eeking a profit with ATs from this position, than by all means keep limping.

[ApolloQuiet]

I guess it's one of those iffy hands, depending on your style.

My PT stats for ATs is Win% 66.67, BB/hand 1.51. I've only got about 7100 hands in my PT database, so these aren't completely accurate long term stats.

It probably comes down to how comfortable you feel playing it, as well as what your read is on the game you are in and the players you are against.

[TimTimSalabim]

ATs falls into that small group of hands that it's ok to limp with early, IMO. It's not strong enough to raise with early in a loose game, but I don't think you can fold it either.

[Chub]

Party 15/30. One player called the river every time for a quite long time so I started to wonder what does she always call with and took some hand histories. She actually called unimproved 96o twice and 97o once and unimproved J7o once when the pot was 3 handed, 4 bets flop, 3 turn, 1 river.

Then it was me headsup with him, flop was something like A5Q and I had the ace. I don't remember the betting pattern and the cards but turn and river were some high cards. I bet the river and she thinks and thinks.. I start to wonder what makes it so hard to click the call button now... eventually she calls and I look at the hand history, of course it was unimproved 34o and she was playing the board. I guess she put me on 24, 34 or 23.

[daryn]

there definitely are situations where it would be correct to call a river bet even though you knew you could split at best.

[MicroBob]

"I guess she put me on 24, 34 or 23."

lol.

interesting. perhaps there was something about your betting pattern that she was able to detect and it was just an incorrect read.

[Tosh]

As I say its a raise in these games.

Don't use Pokertracker statistics to assess these plays though, as unless you have a ridiculously big sample, maybe 400k + hands, then your sample is too small to analyse individual hands.

[Lazymeatball]

After thinking about this thread I decided to limp in UTG with ATs, considering the table was loose passive and there was an LP poster already.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $2.
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button folds, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, BB calls.

River: (7.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows 4c Td (straight, queen high).
Hero shows Th Ah (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 11.25 BB. </font>

[ApolloQuiet]

Good stuff. Guy bets out river with a straight with the 4 flush on board, and then calls the raise. Nice hand.