I get mind boggled

[kiemo]

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 3-bets, CO calls, SB folds

Can I play on here??


Results.
<font color="white">
Hero folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) Jd (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, CO folds, UTG calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 9c (2 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Results in white below:
UTG shows Ad 5s (two pair, sevens and fives).
UTG+1 shows 7d Td (three of a kind, sevens).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 9.50 BB.

Wow!</font>

[Zetack]

Can I play on here??



[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you're getting 11-2 on your call which is better than the 5-1 you need to keep playing. (Edit: oops, I missed the CO call, its actually somewhere around 14-2 on the call).

If its suddenly gotten too rich for your blood though, you don't have to feel bad about dumping because you don't close the action, 2 of your outs make a flush and somebody may have, or could be drawing to a boat which will make your straight worthless.

But I call.

--Zetack

[JSD]

If the board weren't scary (paired and flush draw) I think you should cap it here.

[kiemo]

Heres how I looked at it.

I came in from the BB, which means I could have ANYTHING.

My raise on the flop doesnt scare UTG or UTG+1. So I ask myself what could these guys have called with in the early position preflop and still bet out with this board. Well since this is mirco limit, anything for them also. So I put one of them on trips and the other either a A or K flush draw.

Now I am getting the right odds here to call, BUT how many of my outs are clean (6?) and will UTG cap it on flop? Then will these two continue the aggression on the turn?

I will fully admit I got really confused. I was trying to calculate my clean outs, my odds, my implied odds, my reverse implied odds, my double secret probation odds, and do some long division by hand for fun in the alloted time given to me and basically it came down to my old mantra, if your racking your brain to figure it out, fold it.

Maybe this is why I dont have alot of straights in PT, I give up on them easily.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Playing is okay, but folding is as well, especially if you have to think that hard to decide. If it was a rainbow board, I'd play. If it wasn't paired, of course I'd play, flush draw out there or no flush draw.

[DoctorDrew]

I think the odds are there to call, BUT you don't cap the action and the same thing is going to happen on the turn. In addition to the complex math theory, which isn't all that bad, I like to ask myself, if I were anywhere else but BB would I even be in this hand? So, there is a chance I would lay this down as well.

[CountDuckula]

Hi kiemo, I was at your table last night (I'm MVLease there, same pic as here). I agree with Zetack, you should call here. Yes, there are hands that can beat you, but there are a lot of players who might bet AXs or AXo like that, whether or not they've hit or have very many outs. Also, people holding big pairs might bet hard to try and drive out the draws. If I'm in your shoes, I'd want to see the turn and maybe the river; I'd go into check-call mode, unless I had enough respect for the opponents to think that they really do have something, and I'd still think about it.

I think you have to get used to coming up with approximations for your pot odds in your head, rather than trying to figure them out exactly. Just count the bets as they into the pot (once the flop betting is done, divide that number by 2, so you can add the turn and river bets to that), and think about that number in relation to the number of bets you have to put in. As Zetack points out, you had 14-2 (=7-1) odds, and with your draw, that's good enough to justify playing on a bit longer. But if you feel better about folding this hand, that's ok too. I like to play a little aggressively, and I get paid off often enough that it makes up for the times I don't. I don't think it's an obvious fold, but it's close enough that I can't really quarrel with it, either.

-Mike

[kiemo]

Different table Count, but I did notice you winning over on the opposite side of the table were on together. I also noticed I came back from -15BB to +7BB after you left, coincidence??

Saw AFK last night too. He got to witness me play on a table where I dont think I could've won with a royal flush.
One guy in particular at that table had my number all night, any hand where he put money into the pot, I was guranteed not to win (and PT backs me up on this).

[sublime]

I think folding is out of the question. the 3-bet should not scare you, as UTG+1 has reason to belive you are on a flush draw and if HE is on the flush draw than so be it. You have plently of outs and yes a few of them "may" be dirty.

Easy call, once you have a draw like that I like to play fearless.

[CountDuckula]

[ QUOTE ]
Different table Count, but I did notice you winning over on the opposite side of the table were on together. I also noticed I came back from -15BB to +7BB after you left, coincidence??

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL! Probably; I don't think I'm that good! /images/graemlins/grin.gif I did get a good run of cards, though. The flop hit me more often than I had any right to expect. I guess it makes up for the times the cards run cold for me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif


[ QUOTE ]
Saw AFK last night too. He got to witness me play on a table where I dont think I could've won with a royal flush.
One guy in particular at that table had my number all night, any hand where he put money into the pot, I was guranteed not to win (and PT backs me up on this).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that happens. Sometimes, you're the bug; sometimes, you're the windshield. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-Mike




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