What is wrong with you people???

6-12 game at the Mirage tonight. 2 suckers playing every hand and 8 players of varying reasonableness. These 2 players ARE the game.


When the game started up, one of them talked to the floor, stating that his friend only spoke Croatian, and asked if he would be able to clarify anything confusing for his friend. After much discussion, the floor said that it was OK if one was out of the hand. No big deal.


They proceed to both play almost every hand for 3 hours. They were relatively passive as well. After 3 hours, the non-english guy posts behind the button. It is his action, and he is confused about what his options are. His friend, who had folded, starts explaining to him in Croatian what the situation is. The player clearly cannot understand the dealer. The players at the table, many of whom were bad beat by these guys, start screaming about the language thing. The floorman is from a different shift and declares no talking. I speak up, mention that it hadn't been an issue, and verify that the previous shift floor had, in fact, agreed to let them talk in exactly this situation. I defend them. The floor rules against them. No foreign language under any circumstances.


This is the first time in THREE HOURS that they had talked. Zilch, nada, nothing in non-english. They played fast and were making the game. This is a clear case of poor customer relations and inappropriate application of a rule.


They racked up shortly afterwards. When I asked the english speaking guy why they were leaving he said : "I don't play to make money, I play to have fun. This game isn't fun."


They left, I more or less yelled at two regulars who should have known better than to make it an issue, and I racked up, leaving the table 7 handed with no fish and no list.


What the hell are these people thinking?

It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face. Utter stupidity.

clarkmeister, of course you are right 100% but what good does it do to slam into the idiot regulars? the foreign tourists were going to win or lose their money anyways and then you never see them again, but the regulars you will see again, well, tomorrow, and the next day, and the next. clearly the regulars are not thinking at your level and likely are not as good as you, thus your admonition only wisened them up some, or a lot, to your truer nature. maybe before they thought good ol dave was just there to gambool as well, or maybe they saw thru that and knew better but know they know for sure, and will adjust their play against you. but maybe not, or you can adjust to their adjustments, but bottom line, i would have just racked up in silence and headed over to the live 15-30 game :o)

... at skræmme tyrene ud af spillet - er virkelig dumt - pga en teknisk fejl ;-)

There's nothing wrong with letting the regulars know about their stupidity in this regard. If they play with Clarkmeister, they should already know he's a tough player. They should also know to let the fish be. If two tourists sitting there making a game it's quite a bit different that if they're two pros trying gain an additional advantage. Some people have no sense when it comes to enforcing rules on bad players, and I doubt it hurts to let them know it.

I think you make a good point, and I think kb's response also makes a good point.


The problem is that this is all too common in Vegas. Some of the regulars insist on whining every time they get beat. Like getting dealt AK is a guarantee of winning a pot. They had been whining the whole afternoon. In some way they feel that if they insult the poor player, or make him feel bad, that is only fair since he bad beat them. Its insane.


One of these dudes cold called 2 with 78o against me. Flopped a gutshot in a 3 way pot and called the turn. Hit his straight on the river. 4 outer. This guy is a dream, but I had to deal with half the table trying to comfort me. The problem is that I didn't need or want comforting. This dude was drawing to 4 freaking cards in a 6BB pot. You don't get overlays like that very often. I simply don't understand these regulars mentality. I actually had to defend his turn call out loud to get these people to shut up.


Had to vent.......but you make a good point, I'll try and make more lucid conversation with the regulars rather than stooping to their tactics. I could have made my point in a less confrontational manner.

"The problem is that this is all too common in Vegas. Some of the regulars insist on whining every time they get beat. Like getting dealt AK is a guarantee of winning a pot. They had been whining the whole afternoon. In some way they feel that if they insult the poor player, or make him feel bad, that is only fair since he bad beat them. Its insane."


trust me, i know the kind of player you are describing, exactly, and they aren't just exclusive to vegas but worldwide i'm sure. somewhat sensible players, yet how can they miss the big picture by so much? it IS crazy, and yes they had it coming, please know i was not judging you by your responce but merely adding how i would have TRIED to handle it, which is trying to not let my true emotions show, pokerface as it were.best wishes


ps. i'm serious about this weekend, please wear your illinois cap as i would like to meet you and get introduced to maybe Dynasty, Dave in cali, pokerbabe (aka), vince, pokerguy,2d, and anyone i missed as i'm sure you can't have too many poker friends, especially if they live in vegas!... i'm a nice guy!, really!, although i have been known to post a fuzzy thinking post or three.Please don't hold that agin me...

I'm not around as much on the weekends, especially this one with the NCAA tourney going on, but ask the brush at the Mirage for "Dave C who plays 6-12 holdem". They will know if I am there. I'll try and wear the hat. Its white with an orange "I" on the front.

I often ran into this counterproductive and quite frankly offensive attitude when I was learning the game and still thought K4s was a good hand.

I also remember playing 6 -12 at the Mirage a few years ago and I was a very inexperienced player even though I thought I knew it all.

There were two foreign ladies who did not speak English and certainly did not know how to play poker. I am afraid to admit I was one of the ones compaining about their non English speaking etc. Even though they were 2 of the few people in the known poker world at that time who played worse than me.

They eventually got driven out of the game and it was only after a couple of years of misery at the lower limits I started to see the error of my ways.

I was lucky, most people spend a lifetime thinking as I did.

I think that as you play higher (15 - 30 and up) the players start to smarten up enough to realise the folly of having the attitude you describe.

I would rarely if ever consider saying anything to these players but I must say it's mighty tempting at times!

Hillbilly,

I'll be getting into town on friday night and will probably pull a late session at the bellagio. look for me in (likely) jeans, a long sleeve tee shirt, and a black baseball type cap with "sounds of aloha"on the logo. probably be at the bellagio for most of my poker playing this weekend. 8-16 to 30-60 games. look forward to meeting you.

2d

ps I sign up as "matt s", so you can take that as an audio cue if i'm not already in the game.

Clarkmeister,

I've actually had some success turning this attitude against the crusty ones. as an unfamiliar face in Vegas, the locals seem to swarm when I get into the game. the actual salivating begins when I tell them I'm from California. it's sealed when I hit some seemingly long shot hand that is actually an automatic ticket (flop gutshot/backdoor straight/one overcard and hit the runner runner flush, or some other sort of nonsense). I get so much action at times that it's rediculous. It seems like the other players don't notice that I've only played on hand in the last four orbits, or that the hands I'm showing down are premium. let them take their tourist bias and loosened up game against me. I'm happy to comply with their obvious desire to not have to carry any heavy racks to the cage at the end of the night.

good luck with your picks, don't bet against Kent state...heh

i'll be between mirage and bellagio's, staying at harrahs, will attempt to find you for sure, hell, you've met Ray, there's alot of incentive right there, heh,...leaving my country duds at home, slacks and poker shirts for me, 6'1, short brown hair up front, long braid in the back, probably tucked under my shirt... good luck at the tables...i'm out the door right now

"They racked up shortly afterwards. When I asked the english speaking guy why they were leaving he said : "I don't play to make money, I play to have fun. This game isn't fun.""


LOL! what is ANYONE thinking living in LV and playing relatively tough 6-12 games (!!) when they could be playing against tons of terrible players at many many mid limits tables in LA??

Clark, I have to tell you that when I'm in vegas, I play at the Mirage and have noticed this to be almost normal behavior from the regulars. I have not personally had this problem, and have in fact found most of these grumps to be quite friendly to me once they realize I can play, and that I'm generally a very friendly person. But I remember sitting in a very profitable 10-20 game with 3 of the worst players I've ever seen. I was heads up with one of these players with one of the regulars who just caught a bad beat telling me "get him" and "stick it to him". Now this just threw me off, and gave the sucker more reason to stay in and draw out on me, and of course my trips lost to an inside straight. Now this player was leaning towards a fold, and the cheering just pumped his testasterone level up, so he called.

After his win, he smurked and gave his money to the casino instead of us, and enjoyed the rest of his vacation. Now, since I don't know any of the regulars, I didn't say anything because there is no point.

But I felt like screaming your post:

"WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE???"

Amazing that you point this out right when I was just about to put up a post about the grouchy, crotchety, wine-ey ass las vegas regulars who regularly kill thier own games by bitching about the bad beats from the bad players in the games they are playing in till they finally ruin the game and the bad players get up and leave and the game they are in now sucks with a bunch of grouchy crotchety surly ass 119 year old las vegas regular jerks who know how to take an otherwise great game and ruin it by simply sitting down and scowling and being outright nasty to the fish and tourists to the point where the tourists get up and leave and go blow their few hundred bucks in five minutes playing blackjack and the big wheel and then get even more pissed off and never come back to the mirage or bellagio or wherever else they were offended again because the surly nasty las vegas regulars ruined yet another game and yet they still bitch about all the lousy games in las vegas but they drive out the fish by bitching about the very plays they want the fish to be making!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


GET WITH THE F#%&ING PROGRAM!!!!! FUN GAMES ARE BETTER THAN UN-FUN ONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!


(Extra punctuation added to enhance the run-on effect)


Dave in Cali (in Vegas)

"... the regulars you will see again, well, tomorrow, and the next day, and the next. clearly the regulars are not thinking at your level and likely are not as good as you, thus your admonition only wisened them up some..."


You almost have a real point here, but I think a counter-point might make it more clear exactly why Clarkmeister is pissed in the first place.


First off, these regular players are in fact a bunch of clueless jerks for the most part. They certainly don't need to read no books as they were born already knowing it all plus some more than that too. However, despite their complete cluelessness, and despite the fact that Clarkmeister is clearly the superior player, these people have such incredibly tight grips on thier wallets that you can't hardly eek enough out of them to take a trip down to the nickel slots at circus-circus after playing with them for nearly 75 years. They out rock the rockiest of rocks with their incredible tightness. It's ingrained in their incredibly dynamically dull and dreadful personalities. The scowls on their faces are permanant and can't be un-done. But the bigger problem with these personality-less jerks is that they drive off the true fish with their scowls and incessant bitching. Someone calls heads up on the turn for a gutshot. They get there. The Vegas regular bitches for over half an hour.


Well what did you want him to do, FOLD? HE WAS *OBVIOUSLY* MAKING A *MAJOR* MISTAKE BY CALLING YOUR BET, WHICH IMPLIES THAT BY THEIR CALLING, YOU WERE OBVIOUSLY BENEFITTING!!!!


It drives me nuts. Shut the hell up and go the hell home, you are ruining what was a great game until you sat down in it!


look for a post on this subject on the general holdem forum...


Dave in Cali (up on his soapbox)

You have a point about the phenomenon we are discussing being worldwide, but out of the places I have played (AC, Cali, and Vegas), it is FAR worse in Vegas. AC people usually just shut the hell up about it. Cali players are all so loose that no one bitches because no one notices. Vegas seems to be full of bitchy ass regulars who just won't shut the hell up already and let the fish be fish. I wrote a post a while back entitled "image / The CARDINAL sin" where the cardinal sin was driving a fish from the game. Vegas-ites commit the cardinal sin constantly, every day, all day, with their bitching and wine-ing.


By the way, no FUZZY THINKING has ever occurred, EVER in the jolly bunch of forumites commonly found in the mirage and bellagio, especially not Clarkmeister, D. Andrew, Poker Babe (aka), Vince, Dynasty, or any of the rest of us SUPER-GENIUS type poker guru types..........


Dave in Cali (in Vegas)

Clark -

You're basically preaching to the choir here. It might make you feel a little better to vent, and have us all stand up and shout, "Yea verily, Brother Clark!"


But it won't help.


Write Donna a nice letter, on paper, with your signature, and an envelope and a stamp and everything. Tell her that you put in X hours each week there. Explain in calm and rational detail exactly what happened. Mention that:


1. The guys hadn't been talking, for three hours.


2. The Croatian conversation took place when one of them had folded. Sure, he could be telling his buddy what he folded. Let's look at the big picture.


3. The English-speaker told you, on his way out, why he was leaving.


I'd like to think you'll get a good response to this.


Donna Harris

Poker Room Manager

Mirage Hotel-Casino

3400 S. Las Vegas Blvd

Las Vegas, NV 89109


Let us know how it goes.


Regards, Lee