paradise - 5/10 5 max

[stripsqueez]

its good to go home

its a familiar line up - on your left is a good player from norway - across the table is another good player you know as lizard boy - the other 2 i hadnt seen before but over the last 3-4 orbits they seemed aggressive - that could be a matter of perception i suppose given the party 6 max games i have been playing

folded to me on the button with Jc10c - i raise and aggro bloke calls and the BB - lizard boy - calls

flop is Qc Jd 8s - its checked to me and i bet - they both call

turn is 8d - check, check, and i bet - aggro guy raises and lizard boy folds - i 3 bet and he calls

river is 3h - check, check

all good ?

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[King Yao]

I would only call on the turn with plans to call on the river.

If he had KT and misses on the river, he is likely to give you the bet back on the river with a bluff.

If he had a Q, you lose the same amount...although you gain the small equity here of getting the free option to make another bet if you do get the 9 on the river

If he had a JT, J9, he is staying in with you...but if you checked, you likely would have made the bet back on the river by him betting the river or him checking the river and you betting.

If he had a 8, you may lose more

The small advantage of getting an option to gain a extra bet if you hit a 9 does not seem to be worth it compared to the chances he has an 8 (noticed he waited til the turn to raise which indicates his chances of having a Q is probably lower, and chances of having a 8 is probably higher, at least compared to the odds of the cards that are left in the deck - 2 8s, 3 Queens, but the true odds given his actions is probably in favor of him having an 8) ... also a reraise here does not feel like a fold to a three bet like it may be in other situations where there are less possible draws.

[stripsqueez]

he had 9d5d

flush draws, straight draws, and an aggro - 3 bet seemed right at the time - i think your analysis is fine except that it is based on my opponent doing more logical things

i'm not sure if this is the best line - i was happy to show what i 3 bet the turn with...

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi stripsqueez:

When you make it three bets on the turn, what are you trying to accomplish? Clearly, you would be happy if your opponent will fold.

But why will he fold? The answer is that you have showed so much strength that you have convinced him that he needs a hand that can beat at the minimum three eights.

Nom suppose that he holds a hand like QT. It's better than your hand, but he may become convinced that it is second best. Yet he calls because it has some chance to draw out. So if you bet again, he may fold on the river, and given the size of the pot, I think you should bet again.

Best wishes,
Mason

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
So if you bet again, he may fold on the river, and given the size of the pot, I think you should bet again

[/ QUOTE ]

good advice - wrong planet

if i read this guy right he isnt folding a Q - the upside to 3 betting is that i can bet the river if i improve and i might fold a complete bluff - the less obvious upside is that i am always choosing the aggressive action and there is a premium on aggression in this game

i suppose that its also upside if he gives up on the river after semi bluffing the turn but that is another planet too

the downside is obvious although a lot of the time he has a better hand on the turn it is costing me the same

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi stripsqueez:

Since he check raised you and acts before you, he'll most likely bet into you on the river. Now if you improve you can raise him there.

If he is on a complete bluff why would you want him to fold it? Aren't you better off getting him to bet it again on the river? And, if you think there is no chance he will fold a queen on the river, why make the play at all?

Best wishes,
Mason

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
If he is on a complete bluff why would you want him to fold it? Aren't you better off getting him to bet it again on the river? And, if you think there is no chance he will fold a queen on the river, why make the play at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

he might have a "complete" bluff with an A or K but you are otherwise right that theres no benefit only loss in scaring off such a hand

i might well lose to a Q - i reeled off the upsides to 3 betting earlier in this post - i figure you arent playing 5 max right unless your looking a bit stupid some of the time

stripsqueez - chickenhawk