65suited BB

Same 4-8 table as the AT hand below.


5 limpers including the small blind to me in the BB with 6c 5c. I check, 6 sbs in the pot.


Flop 9s, 6h, 2d.


SB A fairly good player normally, who has a lot of beer in him tonight and is kind of tricky checks.


I check.


UTG loose tricky aggressive player bets. He could have as little as a gut shot here, and yes he would play T8 or something like that UTG.


Folded to late position to loose passive player who calls. SB also calls. 9 small bets, and I might have 5 outs, I might also be ahead of this crew right now.


Turn 5s (9s, 6h, 2d)


I have two pair, but there are two possible straights out there, and and 4 cards that would make a 1 card gutshot draw, and now a spade draw has materialized. If UTG was betting some kind of draw, he might check now and get a free card, and the passive player in LP will proably check unless he does have a straight, so I think that if I check there is too large of a risk of a free card here.


Small blind checks, I bet, UTG folds, and LP and the SB call.


River. Qd 5s 9s 6h 2d.


Other than a 5 or 6, I think this is the best card in the deck because it doesn't relate to any other cards, I bet, both call, and muck after I show my hand.


I won both of these hands in tonights session, but I wonder if I didn't take the easy way out, and leave some bets on the table in both cases. since both players called me on the river, they must have had some values, and either UTG might have continued his bluff, or the LP might have bet if checked to on the turn.


Thanks again for your responses,


Bob T.

You are holding 6c5c and the flop is: 9s,6h,2d.


You're call of the flop bet may be wrong. The reason for this is that the three 5's will complete an open-ended striaght draw for anybody holding 87. I'm not saying that you should fear that the nut draw is always out there. However you're only getting 9:1 pot odds on your call and you're 8.4:1 to improve on the turn. Even when a 5 does not give anybody else a straight, you do not necessarily have the best hand. And, you are vulnerable to being outdrawn by anybody holding just a 9 who still has eight outs (two 9's, three 2's, and his three kickers). If you were holding 6c4c, it would be a much easier call on the flop.


When you improve on the turn, I would go for the checkraise. You will usually have the best hand here and would like to get the most money out of it.

Paraphrasing, it may be wrong to call the flop because a 5 may make you the second best hand but when the 5 falls you advocate check-raise?


I'm very confused by this. Would you elaborate, please?

When the flop action returns to him, he's getting 9:1 pot odds to call when he's 8.4:1 to improve. Note, he's not 8.4:1 to improve to the best hand.


Because the pot odds and odds to improve are so close and 3 of your 5 outs will occasionally improve an opponent's hand to the nut straight, I think the call on the flop is marginal and possibly incorrect.


However, once you've made it to the turn and hit a 5, you're will have the best hand the majority of the time and should extract the most money out of it. It's the few occasions when you are up against 87 which turns what appears to be a correct call based on pot odds to a possible loser. There's also the possibility that spiking a 5 will still leave you behind a hand such as a set and the redraws other hands will have to beat you on the river.


If the pot were just a little bigger, I would have no problem with the call. If the pot were giving 11:1, the call would be easy.

After thinking about it for 24 hours, I realize that betting out instead of checkraising was somewhere between mediocre and horrible. UTG was aggressive, and in other situations he continued to bet when he wasn't raised on the flop even with very marginal holdings. It is very likely that he would have bet in this situation, and if I would have checkraised, I would likely have won 6 big bets after the flop instead of 4.


In the case that a 5 counterfeitted my hand by making someone a straight, I may have also been able to escape for 0 additional investment, if UTG bets the turn, and either LP or the SB raise him, it is likely that my two pair is no good, and I should probably throw them away instead of persuing it further. If the 5 makes a straight, and the straight slowplays after UTG's bet, then threebets my checkraise, I now have the proper odds to take one more off in the hope of spiking a 5 or 6 on the river because the pot has grown so large.


So checking intending to checkraise makes me more money when I am ahead, and potentially saves me bets when I am behind.


Thanks Dynasty and Matt for responding,


Bob T.

In this situation, after the flop, if you're going to call, why not bet right out? If the UTG is tricky aggressive, there's a good chance he'll raise if he has anything at all. His raise will likely knock out all players with two overcards, backdoor flushes with one overcard that may call anyway, maybe even a backdoor flush with a low pair (A2s), and other gut shot straights. Your only chance to win is to get everyone one out and hope your 6 holds up, or if a five or six appears.


This bet-raise will give you a lot of info: If there's another raise, you probably can fold, if several call, you have problems (someone's slow-playing a set, etc). But most likely, with this flop, everyone will fold to you. If it were me, I would consider re-raising and betting out when the 5 comes. If no one raises and a bunch call and the 5 comes, I would consider check-raising like Dynasty suggested. Rather than worry about maximizing the win, I would be most concerned with winning at all or minimizing my losses by folding at a low price.


Maybe this is too aggressive, thoughts?

Thanks for yor ideas Mark,


However, I do think that this is too aggressive.

This was a very passive table, and with three players who if bet into would call, call, call with a lot of holdings that I would lose to and I would never get any information until they called on the turn. Secondly, UTG, although tricky and aggressive, had a lot of respect for my game, and he isn't going to help me by raising unless he has a hand that is going to beat middle pair, and if he does, I still have to hit my hand to win, but at a higher price than I would be paying if I just check called. As Dyansty pointed out, my outs on this hand might be counterfeited, (a 5 puts two possible straights on the board) and I barely have the necessary odds to make the call as it is, so anything that would shorten the odds, has to be well into the -EV range.


Good luck,

Play well,


Bob T.

where i play players are very aggressive, so an isolation raise is a good possibility. since an isolation raise is better than just a call, if i'm going play this hand (i would likely check and fold), i would always bet. worst case, same players call. best case, isolation raise.


so much of hold'em is dependent on the table dynamic, and it's nearly impossible to get this across in these posts. the real issue to me is not how to play this particular hand in this situation, but what are the range of playing options and which strategy best suits the opportunity. sounds like you know that too...