QQ small blind

[JGalt]

I am a new member and would like to thank all members and moderators of this site for the exceptional format and information here.

I would first like to give a little backround on me. I've been playing for about five years and have begun to be more serious about my game. I play mainly 1 table tourneys and am doing fairly well. I have confidence in my game but everone once in awhile a situation will pop up that I just have to question my play. So here it is.

Playing PP 55 table/table is a mix of loose and tight.
Blinds are 100-200 and 8 players left.

I'm in the small blind with a stack of T1000 chips. I'm dealt QQ, 5 callers, no raises and comes back to me. I call, BB checks. Flop ends up 323 rainbow. I bet, BB raises, next player T300 left re-raises, rest fold, I call. To make it short I play to the end and lose to BB trip 3's.

My question is should I have raised pre-flop. With seven players my thought is to play safe, but if I raise BB with 10,3o I'm sure they would have folded. I've already condemned myself for playing to the end, but if you would like to comment on that as well, I would be grateful.

Thanks

[nothumb]

You say that you were tempted to 'play safe' with QQ from the small blind. The 'safe' play with QQ is to make a decent raise and clear out the field a little bit. While it's possible you wouldn't have knocked out the guy who caught his three in this case, in the long run you will punish people who play 10-3 offsuit against your ladies.

[Reverend]

If I read correctly there's 1300 in the pot already with 5 callers, with yourself and the big blind still to act. You have 1000 chips left, possibly including your 100 for the small blind. I cannot see any reason to do anything but go all-in here. You have a very good hand but not one that desperately wants to see a flop, especially with that many callers. Even if it's folded to your all-in you have more than doubled up, if you get a caller you stand a good chance of tripling up.

At this stage in the tournament it's only likely that the very first limper could have AA or KK, with the blinds that big anyone after the first caller would almost certainly raise with either of those hands.

I would be extremely surprised if anyone can give a good reason to do anything but raise all-in.

Rob

[JGalt]

Sorry, forgot to say it's a limit game.

Thanks

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

My question is should I have raised pre-flop. With seven players my thought is to play safe

Big pairs in the hole need to be able to win without impovement. The way to "play it safe" is to limit the field.

Was this limit or no-limit? Unless someone is sandbagging you with AA, KK, or AK, you're a big favorite over one or two callers. Push all your chips in and take the pot righ there.

Now if it's limit, you still have to raise and see how many callers you get.

[Reverend]

Sorry, I play no-limit (I did start on limit) bar those times I accidently join the limit sngs and automatically assumed it was NL. As i've blundered in with my size 15s i'm going to offer an opinion however and see if someone with more limit experience agrees:

QQ in this position in a tournament is neglible EV (that's $$ EV, not chip EV). I would actually suggest it's -$EV but that's sure to get me flamed.

This is a pretty horribly position to be in I feel. Yes you should probably have raised but most of the time you are going to end up going out of the tournament by the end of the hand or very short stacked having folded when an ace or a king flops. A raise is unlikely, with the pot the size it is, to force more than one or two players out preflop. As it happens one of these could well have been the big blind who beat you but QQ is still a big underdog TO THE COMBINED FIELD against four other players and with the pot so large already people will be relucant to give up a hand which hit any part of the flop.

If you are looking to win the tournament you have to raise here and look to double or triple up by the end of the hand. There are still 8 players however and winning the hand is no guarantee of even placing, let alone making first place.

I think calling and looking to make a set is the best move if your priority is placing in the money, having done that however I would have trouble not betting the flop you got too.

I don't imagine this will have been of any help to you but the situation got me thinking and i'd like to see what others think about the above. Personally i'd be happier to have 72os here and send it happily into the muck before watching one or two of the others knock themselves out than almost be forced by the cards to get myself into a situation where well over half the time i'm out of the tournament or crippled by the end of the hand, especially when making the 'right' move and raising preflop.

'You weak calling station' flames welcome /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rob

[HajiShirazu]

You absolutely have to go all in preflop here. The odds are very long that you will see a better hand with a decent amount of chips remaining, and even if everybody called your all in (very unlikely) you'll still have a hand which is probably a favorite to win. Short stack, lots of dead money in the pot, QQ...what more could you ask for. I would make this same play with JJ and possibly even TT in your situation.
The most likely scenario when you go in is that everybody folds including the BB, giving you all the dead money in the pot, or even better, you get called and will almost always be a 7:3 or even 8:2 favorite.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

He can't go all-in. It's limit.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

You still have to raise, if for no other reason than to knock out the random hand on the BB. With this many callers, it may not even have helped here, but you still have to try.

[M.B.E.]

Since it's limit, I think you're better off just calling in the SB with QQ. Then you go for a checkraise on the flop. Raising preflop is not that bad, however.