Just some hands

[Homer]

Kindly review these five random hands and let me know what you might have done differently.

<font color="red">Hand 1</font> (I considered a different play on the turn)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Superhero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Superhero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
Superhero bets, BB raises, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Superhero 3-bets, BB caps, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Superhero calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
Superhero bets, BB calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button folds.

River: (15.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Superhero bets, BB calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows 5d 4d (straight, eight high).
Superhero shows 9d 6d (three of a kind, sixes).
Outcome: BB wins 17.50 BB. </font>


<font color="red">Hand 2</font> (There was a reason I just called the turn, then raised the river. What was it?)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Holm is UTG+2 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Holm calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.
Flop: (7 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Holm checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (3.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB bets, BB raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Holm calls, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, SB calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Holm raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 22.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB shows Ts 7s (three of a kind, tens).
BB shows 4c Tc (three of a kind, tens).
UTG+1 shows Ah Js (two pair, aces and jacks).
Holm shows Kd Qh (straight, ace high).
Outcome: Holm wins 22.50 BB. </font>

<font color="red">Hand 3</font> (Raise the turn? Raise the river or go for the overcall?)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Woozle-wuzzle is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Woozle-wuzzle raises, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, Woozle-wuzzle bets, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (5 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB bets, UTG calls, Woozle-wuzzle calls.

River: (8 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG bets, Woozle-wuzzle calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG shows Th Js (two pair, jacks and tens).
Woozle-wuzzle shows Ah Kd (straight, ace high).
Outcome: Woozle-wuzzle wins 10 BB. </font>

<font color="red">Hand 4</font> (Bet the river, and if so is it a value bet or bluff? If I check and my opponent bets, do I call?)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Weak-tight is BB with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, Weak-tight checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Weak-tight bets, UTG folds, CO calls.

Turn: (2.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Weak-tight bets, CO calls.

River: (4.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Weak-tight checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 4.75 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Weak-tight shows 3h 7s (one pair, sevens).
CO shows 5s 6c (one pair, sixes).
Outcome: Weak-tight wins 4.75 BB. </font>

<font color="red">Hand 5</font> (Bet the river or check-call?)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Mmmmm, beer is BB with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB completes, Mmmmm, beer checks.

Flop: (3 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Mmmmm, beer bets, CO calls, SB folds.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Mmmmm, beer bets, CO calls.

River: (4.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Mmmmm, beer checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Mmmmm, beer shows 9c Jd (two pair, kings and jacks).
CO shows 4c Qc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Mmmmm, beer wins 4.50 BB. </font>

Thanks if you made it this far.

-- Homer

[CrackerZack]

Hand 1:

I like it. I'd consider check-raising the turn but if BB checks, I think this is being checked around. That's a lot of money to leave on the table.

Hand 2:

I'd bet the flop, 3-bet the turn. called to see what SB would do? If they flopped a boat, god bless 'em, but after the turn, i'm going down in flames on this one.

Hand 3:

I'd raise the river, I like the turn call because you have to call a 3-bet if you raise the turn and that's no fun.

Hand 4:

I'd bet the river and pray. Its deli thin value but party players are morons and will call with a J high.

Hand 5:

if this is against the same opponent, since positions are the same, you need a kick in the nuts. bet the river. the K helped you if you has a crap J as he may think his kicker improved.

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks if you made it this far.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're welcome, now bet the river.

Zack

[MaxPower]

Hand 1 - I'd figure out how many outs you have, but I can't count that high. I would play exactly the same way.

Hand 2 - You slowplayed the slowplayers. I'm not sure why you waited for the river. Please elighten me chosen one.

Hand 3- Unless I knew something specific about my opponents I would play it the same way.

Hand 4- If you check and call, you are a huge underdog. So I think you need to value bet the river.

Hand 5- Without knowing what kind of hands he would call with, I have no idea. I probably check and hope to snap off a bluff.

[J.R.]

Disclaimer: No results look

Hand 1: I would play the same, going for a turn check-raise opens you up to the 3-bet from a straight/full-house and there is a chance a non-straight flush diamond doesn't give you the pot.

Hand 2: I may be a little LAG but I often raise here preflop and bet this flop. Waiting to the river lets you minimize the loss if a flush or double board pairing card rivers and also makes it more likely you get more action on the turn as a 3-bet is a stiff price that may fold some marginal hands or straight draws.

Hand 3: Cool, the board is very connected on the turn so there is a decent chance you are behind (the turn lead bet is rarely a bluff regardless of what Duke or others claim, IMO), and a raise won't protect your hand but opens you up to a 3-bet when you have outs and can't really fold to the 3-bet. Go for the river overcall, no reason to shut out a crying call and risk a 3-bet from UTG's possible flush.

Hand 4: ICK. What reasonable worse hand will bluff, almost all of the flop straight and flush draws got there? Flop overcards like two broadway cards? My SOP would be to check fold the river unless my opponent was special.

Hand 5: bet the river and fold to a raise.

[Joe Tall]

Excuse me if I miss details as I usually do when there is only one hand...

Hand#1
I play it the same way.

Hand#2
I raise preflop after 2 limpers especially if they are weak ones. Other than that, I play it the same.

Hand#3
SB's check and UTG now betting as the 3rd /images/graemlins/club.gif has me calling as an over-call will gain as much as a raise/fold/call and will not lose as much as being 3-bet.

Hand#4
You could make an arguement that only a better hand will call so checking is fine.

Hand#5
You could make an arguement that only a better hand will call so checking is fine.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 3:

I'd raise the river, I like the turn call because you have to call a 3-bet if you raise the turn and that's no fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does that make calling a river 3-bet fun? Why raise and drive out the SB (who has now checked) and give UTG a chance to 3-bet (now that he's has bet w/3rd /images/graemlins/club.gif hitting). I think calling hoping for an overcall is better than raising, driving out the SB and getting into a posible 3-bet situation.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[CrackerZack]

I'm really not worried about the flush here. If he has it, god bless him, but there is alot of non-flush things he'll have. Looking back, I like the call because of the very high chance you're splitting here.

for a little quid pro quo, how can you really check the river in hand 5? Open limps from the cutoff, goes call, call, this guys definitely a station. If its the same guy from hand 4, this is down right bad, even if you're playing 6 tables you notice when your 73o is good and have to see what the other guy had.

[Homer]

for a little quid pro quo, how can you really check the river in hand 5? Open limps from the cutoff, goes call, call, this guys definitely a station. If its the same guy from hand 4, this is down right bad, even if you're playing 6 tables you notice when your 73o is good and have to see what the other guy had.

It wasn't the same guy, but yeah, the more I think about it, the more it seems that I missed a bet.

[Festus22]

I vote to change the post title to "This is How to Play These Hands" and be done with it. I can't imagine there's any play on any street on any hand that could be labeled "incorrect". I'd guess you'll see minor preferential differences only.

All nicely done IMO.

PS: Who was that Poster Formerly Known as Homer guy anyway?

[sthief09]

you play really, really, ridiculously well. and the reason I say this is because there were 2 or 3 instances where I was like "wait, I know he's a good player but why did he do that?" but then I looked it over and analyzed and realized you did exactly the right thing. routinely making those tough decisions that I'm able to come to upon minutes of analyzation is hopefully the next step for me. so I'm going to try to reason through this and hopefully you can help me, by explaining some of your reasoning, as well as I can you by giving an outside view of the hands.

first question: how do you find such loose games? I always look at 5-10 tables before I give up and choose one of them, which ends up being tight

hand 1: standard (that is a hell of a flop)
hand 2:
- is there no value in betting the flop, or is betting this walking right into a check raise? I feel like betting the flop might get it checked through if you miss on the turn
- I think you can 3-bet the turn, because anyone on a flush draw will have to call this, whereas on the turn, if they miss, they will just fold. I don't think many people will call 2 cold but not 3. is this a fallacious statement?
- on the other hand, calling the turn lets you see if a heart, T, A, or J slides off before committing so many chips to the pot
- I think going for overcalls + letting you see the river +disguising your nut straight probably outweighs the extra bets you'll make by raising the turn

hand 3:
- there's no way I raise this turn with outs. there's a good chance he has 2 pair
- I really like the call, going for the overcall in case you're against a flush. you gain as many bets if you are ahead, and lose far less if you're behind

hand 4:
- if CO is loose, I think this is a thin, but existent, value bet
- if he's aggressive, you can induce a bluff

hand 5:
- there's not much that he'll call with here that you can beat, especially since the 3-flush has arrive, so I don't think there's value in betting the river.

EDIT: anyone who open-limps from the cutoff is worth betting into on the river (thanks to zack for pointing that out)

[Joe Tall]

CrackerZack,

for a little quid pro quo, how can you really check the river in hand 5?

'quid pro quo', nice.

I most likely bet in both cases. I stated that Homer could make an arguement for checking which is 'fine'. I bet but checking is fine.

I'm really not worried about the flush here. If he has it, god bless him, but there is alot of non-flush things he'll have. Looking back, I like the call because of the very high chance you're splitting here.

But you worried about getting 3-bet on the turn?

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Schneids]

Hand 1: Your line is fine.

Hand 2:
I raise PF, I bet the flop. If I didn't do either, I 3-bet the turn. There's like 30 callers and I'd love for SB or BB to get overzealous with their trip tens and cap it now. Plus with so many players tagging along I gotta believe there are some flush or straight draws out there, and I'd like to get the BB's from them now, since I can't after they miss on the river. If someone has a boat, so be it. I'm getting like 45,000:1 action on my turn 3-bet /images/graemlins/wink.gif, I think I'll come out plenty ahead in the long-picture.

Why did you only call?

Hand 3: Your line is fine for full-table play.

Hand 4: Your line is fine.

Hand 5: Your line is fine.


I'm mainly just baffled about your play in #2.

[mosch]

Hand 1: I'd have played it the same way, I like it.

Hand 2: I bet the flop here, and three-bet the turn. Why you just called the turn is a mystery to me.

Hand 3: I call the turn and call the river. Raising the river is only +EV against the most rabid of monkeys since this pot is getting chopped most of the time.

Hand 4: Bet the river for what's either a thin value bet or a decent semi-bluff. whatever you call it, it's a good bet in that game.

Hand 5: I'm not sure if I check-call or bet on the river. I think my decision is opponent specific.