AJo, tight aggressive 5/10

[BigEndian]

From my perspective, there aren't a lot of weak seats at this table. The table was averaging somewhere around 20-25% Flop with most every hand raised PF.

I'm not comfortable with how I played this hand. My reasoning at the time was that if I just keep calling I can continue to induce bets from worse hands. If I raise anywhere along the line, worse hands will likely fold. However, I do not know where I stand until the showdown.


Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: BigEndian is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">BigEndian raises</font>, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, BigEndian calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, BigEndian calls.

River: (5.20 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, BigEndian calls.

Final Pot: 7.20 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 7.20 BB, between BB and BigEndian.</font>

- Jim

[Guido]

On the flop what do you think he has? A king, a queen, a jack, a draw or nothing? I think he has a king or queen which means your behind and have at most 9 outs. When he bets out you have to decide whether you want to take it to a showdown or not. When you do, I think you should raise the flop and bet the turn and check behind on the river when you don't improve. When you're not sure what you want I would say fold on the turn because you don't have the odds to call.

Guido

P.S. What were you doing at that table anyway?

[sthief09]

at least raise one time. you called the flop, turn, and river with bottom pair AFTER a guy bet into your pre-flop raise.


I would play it something like this:
flop: BB bets, hero raises, BB calls
turn: BB checks, hero bets, BB calls
river: BB checks, hero checks

or

flop: BB bets, hero raises, BB 3-bets, hero calls
(if I don't improve)
turn: BB bets, hero folds

[BigEndian]

Those are good points. I felt it was very likely that hands like 55-TT and JT could be in play. Against those hands, if I were to raise any street I would lessen the earn I could get with this hand by folding my opponent.

At the same time, if my opponent didnt fold to my raise, I am behind most of the time - but not all of the time.


[edit] removed AT for obvious reasons.

[edit, edit] I didn't move tables because this one was a challenge and provides a chance to learn something other than how to beat bad players.

- Jim

[The Bear]

[ QUOTE ]
at least raise one time. you called the flop, turn, and river with bottom pair AFTER a guy bet into your pre-flop raise.


I would play it something like this:
flop: BB bets, hero raises, BB calls
turn: BB checks, hero bets, BB calls
river: BB checks, hero checks

or

flop: BB bets, hero raises, BB 3-bets, hero calls
(if I don't improve)
turn: BB bets, hero folds


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with thief, except that I would call the turn in the second scenario, getting 5.5-1 on my likely 6-9 outer. I would then fold unimproved on the river.

[Guido]

[ QUOTE ]
I felt it was very likely that hands like 55-TT and JT could be in play. Against those hands, if I were to raise any street I would lessen the earn I could get with this hand by folding my opponent.


[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, this might be true but do you think 55-99 would bet into a PFR with this board? I don't think so. JT or TT are possible but against all the other hands like KJ and KT you're behind. That's why you have to raise the flop to find out. The pot is small but to me it seems you would rather lose an extra 2.5BB rather than take the pot right here. I think your costing youself money by not being aggressive enough on the flop. I've read a lot of posts from you and you almost always wait for the turn or you don't show any aggression at all just because you don't want them to fold. When you do want them to fold it's for the wrong reasons most of the time (like C/R into a crowd when there is a flush and straight draw on the board).

[ QUOTE ]
At the same time, if my opponent didnt fold to my raise, I am behind most of the time - but not all of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]
But you can take a free card on the river.

So be more aggressive on the flop, why?
1) To find out where you stand.
2) It's a cheap street to find out
3) You can take a free card if you want
4) People are willing to pay you on this street

Be aggressive on the turn when you have a strong hand and there were no signs of aggression.

Hope this helps... I know I haven't explained it all but it's diner time now /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Guido

[The Bear]

[ QUOTE ]

P.S. What were you doing at that table anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

There often aren't many good table choices at the Party 10-handed 5/10 games. Over the last several months, I've found this game to be substantially tighter than 3/6. Add to that the fact that there aren't as many tables available and good game selection becomes tough.

However, despite the ubertightness preflop, these games still hold plenty of profit potential.

[BigEndian]

[ QUOTE ]
I've read a lot of posts from you and you almost always wait for the turn or you don't show any aggression at all just because you don't want them to fold. When you do want them to fold it's for the wrong reasons most of the time (like C/R into a crowd when there is a flush and straight draw on the board).

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an extremely unfair generalization Guido and takes your opinions down about 3 notches in my book.

Thanks anyhow.

- Jim

[Guido]

I said almost always. I don't know how you play in the hands you don't post but in the hands you do post this seems to be the case a lot of times. That's why noticed it... I don't want to offend you, I just want to help you and learn about the game myself. I don't want to generalize and perhaps it's just a coincidence but most of the time when I don't agree with your play it has to do with slowplaying or not being aggressive at the "right" street or C/R at the wrong moment. I hope I haven't offened you, if so, sorry about that. I hope I can climb up in your book again /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Thanks,

Guido

[Joe Tall]

First, in the world on online poker, I assure you that there are softer tables than this and I'd be finding one.

If you were sure the BB was aggressive enough to bluff into you like this then calling is the right play. However, if you are not then I'd raise this flop and check-through the turn unimproved and call a river bet, therefore saving you 1/2 bet at showdown. You can fold if he re-raises/check-raises.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[BigEndian]

The end result of this hand was my opponent showed me AK.

I understand the merits of raising the flop and folding to a re-raise then or on a later street. But, in my opinion, that avenue costs me the most and wins me the least.

Raising standards from my position on this type of table are wide (Axs, any two face cards, any pair, etc). The player in the BB could feel plenty justified betting into me with many hands waiting to be raised and then they would fold.

I'm not saying I played this hand the right way - I'm just giving my reasons. My opponent knows that my raising standards are fairly wide, everyone at the table appeared to be very observant. This was an attempt to adjust my play to take advantage of probing bets.

For this hand, I was outplayed since if I was 3-bet from the BB I would have certainly picked a different line. Perhaps one similar to those suggested, but more likely a flat-out fold on the flop.

- Jim

[CrackerZack]

I'm really pretty much baffled as to how I would play this hand against a standard tight opponent. No weak seats huh? Frequently I'd raise the flop, bet the turn, check behind on the river. Folding is a bit weak as you could have as many as 9 outs (unlikely, but coupled with the fact you may be ahead too) but not completely unreasonable. The pot is small, there are two overcards to your pair, and your opponent is not a complete idiot. Interesting hand, I'm gonna read what others have said. Not sure about the best line, due to that, I don't hate your line.