Dang River

Hand: PP 1-2 HE


I'm in MP with Ts8s

Just started playing at this table so I have no info on anyone.


EP1 limps,EP2 limps,I limp (probably too loose), Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.


Flop: 8h 8c 6h


Checked to EP2 who bets. I call with a plan to raise the turn to get out the flush & straight draws (At low limits a flop raise doesn't seem to do it). Everyone calls.


Turn: 8h 8c 6h Qc


Checked to EP2 who bets. I raise. Button cold calls 2. Folded to EP2 who calls.


River: 8h 8c 6h Qc Ah


Dang it. EP2 checks. I go for a check call, but button bets and EP2 now raises.


Now what?

Results later

Muck, your smoked by a flush. One of them has the flush, the other has Ax maybe even AQo. Seriously doubt your set holds up.


The check raise did not do it and now they are betting into you meaning they are not scared of another check raise.


Moral of the story - never slow play a set (especially a mid to low set).


Paul

I thought the situation was an easy muck.


The more interesting part of the hand was the EP2's play.


Results:


I fold. Button calls. EP2 shows 8d9d. Button mucks.


Obivously EP2 knew a lot more about the button than I did. He must have been doing this before I got to the table.


Question 2: If I don't know that the Button frequently bluffs these sitiations, its an easy fold. But if I can put the button on 50% chance of bluffing should I still fold to two bets. There could be a lot out there and I still only have a medium set with a medium kicker.

I'm a newbie but I had to respectfully disagree with one part of your post.


"Checked to EP2 who bets. I call with a plan to raise the turn to get out the flush & straight draws (At low limits a flop raise doesn't seem to do it)."


If you believe that a raise on the flop won't knock them out but one on the turn will, then why not raise on both that way you get the extra bet from them on the flop then they fold on the turn?

if I raise the flop. Then i think that there is a good chance EP2 will either check call or check raise the turn. This is the guy I want to bet, because if I raise right after then the rest of the field will have to call 2 cold for a draw. I thnk here if any one else bets or raises on the turn there is a good chance I am beat.


I also think a raise on the flop is a good way to play this. But I think the way I played would be the best way to get rid of draws. Raising on the flop for value and to see where you are might be a better option. I didn't think so, but I am posting this to get other opinions.

Well I'm not so sure if I calculate odds correctly, but I calculate a cold call to my raise on the turn or the river to be equal.


4.5:1 for both

--Question 2: If I don't know that the Button frequently bluffs these situations, its an easy fold. But if I can put the button on 50% chance of bluffing should I still fold to two bets. There could be a lot out there and I still only have a medium set with a medium kicker. --


You're getting approximately 6:1 on the cold call of the check-raise, but you need much better odds than that because you're now in the middle between a river bettor (strength) and a river check-raiser (a lot of strength). The chances of you getting caught in a river raising war are pretty high here. You don't want to pay 4 BB to see if your trip 8s with a ten kicker on a paired board with a flush showing is any good.


Sometimes (like now) you'll find you folded the best hand, but you're still saving money here by folding.


Don't over-estimate the strength of trips. (Side note: generally, having two on the board and one in your hand is not called a set, its just referred to as three of a kind. A set is when you have two in your hand and one on the board. Much much more powerful and deceptive as well. Worth noting).


Flopping medium trips on a two suited board in a 6 handed pot is just plain SKETCHY. You have to raise the flop here, not to knock out draws (at low limits, flush draws will come through hell and highwater, you raise to make them pay, not to get them out because they're not going anywhere) but to pump the table for information. If you get re-raised by a late position player, you can put him on as little as a big flush draw, or as much as a flopped full house. If you get re-raised from early position, give him credit for a little more than a flush draw.


If nobody re-raises the flop and you get raised on the turn, you can drop it right there, you've been trapped by a slow-played monster, or by someone who just caught their full house on the turn. (please keep in mind I'm still assuming this hand has 4 players - heads up is a totally different ballgame). And even if you haven't run into that monster, you still have at least one flush draw out to bite you in the ass.


A final note: you would rather flop low trips. More people are inclined to play 8 J, 8 Q, 8 A, etc. your chances of getting outkicked are pretty high, in addition to the rest of the danger on this board. You can generally play trip 6s and lower more aggressively as fewer people play 6s and lower.