Losing Proposition?

[Silent0ne]

Hello everyone,
I am hoping to get some input from some of you who have been propping online for 6 months or more. I propped at an online site for a little over a month and just recently stopped last week. The obvious drawback was lack of game selection as the site only had at a max around 100 players logged in and only 50 of those were usually seated, half or more of which were props.

How much do you lose playing under these conditions? Most games I played in were shorthanded with props and maybe one customer and were usually tight aggressive games. I did pretty well the majority of the time I was there,taking my original $900 to $2000 but lost $1000 on my last day there started by playing above my head and catching a bad run of cards while shorthanded w/ a maniac, followed by tilt (very rare for me but as a prop, I couldnt just leave the table with a customer)So all in all I broke exactly even in my experience as a prop.

I know that a month is far too small of a sample size to make a case either way, plus the site that I propped on and my regular site are not compatible with Pokertracker so there is really no way for me to do any analysis. I do win more than 1BB/ HR on my normal site but the games are easy and I am afforded the luxury of table selection (which I never appreciated before but do now.)

Is it ever more profitable to be a prop player than a ring game player given the above conditions? Without the prop payments, it definitely would have been a losing endeavor for me but once a customer base is built it would be profitable. I am interested to hear how this worked out for some of you with more measurable experience. Thanks,

Silent0ne

[Pipedream]

I've propped for a few different sites over the last two years but have been at one for a year or so. It can be very tough playing short handed with other knowledgable players indeed. The swings are very high and bad runs can really make you feel stressed out. BUT, if the pay is good enough and you can adapt to these playing conditions, it can be very profitable.

When no fish are available to eat in a short game, it makes it all the tougher. This is why you may want to try your hand at propping for a site with a higher customer base. Also, take a lot of notes on the other props. You're going to be playing them a ton so get to know their game. If it seems they are reading you well after time, change gears a bit on them and make a few unorthodox plays. You may also want to try your hand at multiple tables. This way, even if you can manage to break even for a few hours of play, the pay will really add up bigtime.

Just keep your cool and play a smart, thinking game and you should prevail. Try different seating positions against the other props, see if you like them acting after or before you. And don't come into the site with a puny bankroll. Remember, the swings are sickeningly high at times so make sure you have a solid cash cushion.

Pipedream

[Spyder]

Are we talking about shills? ie, players playing for the house?

Spyder

[Silent0ne]

[ QUOTE ]
Are we talking about shills? ie, players playing for the house?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, a shill is someone who plays with the house's money and is supposed to liven up the game and keep them going. They are in turn paid for their time. A prop is playing with his/ her own funds and is supposed to start games or sit in games to keep them from breaking. Props are also paid by the hour or by # of hands, etc. The main difference is that a shill creates action with house money to generate more rake while props keep games going and starts new games with their own bankroll.

[Dov]

[ QUOTE ]
lost $1000 on my last day there started by playing above my head and catching a bad run of cards while shorthanded w/ a maniac, followed by tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like you did this to yourself. You tilted before you even got cards. Playing above your head, especially when you know better is one of the definitions of tilt.

This mistake was followed by the mistake of not taking responsibility for your actions by blaming your loss on a bad run of cards in the face of a maniac.

You then go on to console yourself that after this unlikely string of events happened you started to tilt (implying that it is only natural, and that anyone would tilt here) which only happens to you rarely.

I suggest to you that you may have a much bigger tilt problem than you think. You are probably also not as good as you think you are.

If you admit that you have a leak, and commit to fixing it, then you will be fine, regardless of whether you play as a prop or not.

If you ignore this leak, it will come back to haunt you when you do try to move up - if not sooner.

Good Luck

[Silent0ne]

[ QUOTE ]
It sounds like you did this to yourself. You tilted before you even got cards. Playing above your head, especially when you know better is one of the definitions of tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am no proctologist, but it sounds like you are speaking out of your ass. The main point of my post was to see what you give up in a per hour basis by not being able to choose your games. I was asked by the manager to sit in the game which was 8-16. I had only played 5-10 and below on that site up until that point and had experienced similar swings in terms of big bets.

[ QUOTE ]
This mistake was followed by the mistake of not taking responsibility for your actions by blaming your loss on a bad run of cards in the face of a maniac.

[/ QUOTE ]

I accept full responsibility for my actions at the poker table. But again my point was that I would normally leave the table if I felt I was not playing well were it not my responsibility to keep the game going. When very strong hands are beaten by very unlikely hands that were capped preflop, and mine were well ahead on the first two streets, I like to consider that a bad run of cards. Perhaps I am delusional, you seem to be the expert. Had my hands held up, perhaps I could have "blamed" the win on playing well. So in the end I tilted away 20-25 BB of the 62.5 lost.

[ QUOTE ]
You then go on to console yourself that after this unlikely string of events happened you started to tilt (implying that it is only natural, and that anyone would tilt here) which only happens to you rarely

[/ QUOTE ]

I never implied anything, I simply stated that it happened. The string of events is anything but unlikely, given the circumstances. The swings were expected. You read one paragraph of my original post and became so fixated on it that the rest was meaningless to you. If you look at the figures I basically broke even at the tables and received only prop pay over that month. Because of that most of my playing time was and still is spent at my regular site where I make much more because the games are softer.

[ QUOTE ]
I suggest to you that you may have a much bigger tilt problem than you think. You are probably also not as good as you think you are.

If you admit that you have a leak, and commit to fixing it, then you will be fine, regardless of whether you play as a prop or not.

If you ignore this leak, it will come back to haunt you when you do try to move up - if not sooner.


[/ QUOTE ]

I will attribute your condescending tone to stroking your ego, as you seem to be the self proclaimed expert. As to how good I think I am, I never implied that I was an expert, only that I beat the games of my choosing consistently and found myself in a situation that was not profitable for me. I requested experiences from people who had propped for a period of time but I suppose your self righteous drivel is appreciated as well. Good luck.

[Silent0ne]

After browsing all of your posts, I was highly amused to find out that you had been playing poker for less than a year but still found it appropriate to reply in such a condescending manner to a question on which you apparently have no knowledge. You assumed incorrectly that because I am a new poster in this forum that: A) I am a player with less experience than you and B) that I did not read the forum for quite some time before deciding to register.

While I have been playing for a little over six years, I am never above admitting that I still have a lot to learn, especially when the format is new to me as were the tight aggressive shorthanded games. Please think before you speak.

Silent0ne