Too Agressive or just right?

[siccjay]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Sicc is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Sicc raises</font>, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Sicc bets</font>, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Sicc 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, Sicc calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Sicc bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Sicc calls.

River: (11.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Sicc calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 13.25 BB, between Sicc and MP1.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by MP1 (13.25 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
MP1 shows Qd 2d (full house, queens full of sevens).
Sicc shows Kc Kh (two pair, kings and queens).
Outcome: MP1 wins 13.25 BB. </font>

[sublime]

Thats a tough one, because of the paired flop. But you had the flush runner, so maybe the 3-bet is cool.

I am intrested in others response to this.

[siccjay]

I'll explain. I 3bet because a lot of micro limit players will go wild here with any Ace for some reason. When he capped me I figured he had a Queen. He checked the turn so I think, well I'll find out here if he really has a Queen and I bet hoping that he was being over agressive with a flush draw. But no, he check raised me like he was a poker mastermind or something. Then I just called him down on the river, knowing I was going to see some Queen with a sissy kicker and I did.

[sublime]

LOL
Yeah you 3-bet him then he check-raises you.

Slick move /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[siccjay]

he capped and then check raised me

[sublime]

Same difference, obviously you were going to bet....

LOL, I am still wondering what the hell he was thinking.

[afk]

I think though that when a lot of microlimit players cap and then check-raise - they've got a real hand. I think the jig is up on the turn. I dunno, maybe call the check raise and check-fold the river if he bets into you. But I think this is a situation in which you're almost always behind - and and the pot isn't even all that large.

[siccjay]

Yea I didn't think I would drag the pot but I didn't have a read on the guy at all so I can't give it up. It is possible he could have had any two cards as well as a Queen.

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
He checked the turn so I think, well I'll find out here if he really has a Queen and I bet hoping that he was being over agressive with a flush draw. But no, he check raised me

[/ QUOTE ]

It looks like your plan worked. You asked if he really had a Queen, and he said yes. Now all you have to do is listen. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

This kind of sucks, because if you think he's capable of going ape on the flop with a flush draw, you don't want to give him a freebie on the turn.

On the other hand, if you want to prevent him from seeing a free card, you have to be able to fold to a check-raise.

After his cap on the flop, I think I would take my chances and check the turn through, and call if he bets the river.

[afk]

I see your logic and I fully agree with it most of the time. Perhaps this is weak-tight of me, but I think this hand particular hand screams that you're beat. I dunno, maybe calling down was correct, I still don't think so, but I'd like to see some other opinions.

[sthief09]

you played it well. each street looks routine. you can't check after he checks on the turn.

[Nottom]

I think you played it fine. I'd feel dirty for falling for the turn-checkraise and maybe you can consider folding at that point but I think you need to bet after his check since a lot of players will pump a draw on the flop (certainly something like J /images/graemlins/heart.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif).

[MortalNuts]

So I haven't read the other responses, plus I'm sorta drunk right now, but woohoo! That never stopped anyone. But you might wanna keep it in mind.

Anyway, I think you can pretty easily fold to the turn checkraise. You've represented a pretty strong hand on the flop, and your opponent says he can beat it (or doesn't believe you); I don't think he's fooling around here often enough to make a call worthwhile. It's not that big a pot. Blah.

ahh, drunken master poker. liquor makes me strong.

cheers,

mn

[ZootMurph]

The problem I have here is that this fella check-raised you, showing some sense. You were the preflop raiser, so he KNEW he'd get an extra bet out of you. If he'd bet out and 3 bet, I'd agree with you that he is trying to chase you out or he has a 9. However, the check-raise tells me he really does have a Queen. I'd have called the check-raise, then checked the turn and made a crying call on the river, just on the off-chance he was bluffing through. Also, I'd definitely note this guy likes to play crap in raised pots and plays REALLY tricky (two check raises in a row) when he has something.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem I have here is that this fella check-raised you, showing some sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. This turn bet was hero's mistake, I would call this move by villian smart if it had been a "dangerous" card(A/K) on the turn

[ZootMurph]

I agree that, on the turn, our Hero made a mistake by betting, especially after being check/raised on the flop.

But, my point was that, with a big pair showing on the flop, and someone throws a check/raise at you, I feel that it is time to play cautiously. I wouldn't throw the hand away at this point, but I wouldn't come over the top of the check/raise, either.

Here's why: You are up against 5 possible hands here: 1) a Queen, 2) Pocket pair or a 9, 3) JT straight draw or Heart flush draw, 4) Ace, 5) Junk that needs a miracle to beat you. I don't put AA in here simply because there was only our Hero's raise and no others. The check/raise takes out the Junk, and possibly the Ace. Everything else will stay.

If there is no one in group 1, you have group 3 with 6 outs, group 4 with 3 outs, and group 2 with 2 outs. Of course, in this case it would be correct to reraise to punish them for trying to draw out on you.

However, you have to consider which group would do a check-raise on you (the preflop raiser). Well, group 1 definitely. You raised preflop, so they must realize you will bet if they check. Group 2 would not, since that same group didn't raise on the flop, and they have to be worried about you having a bigger pair, especially when you are betting out. Group 3 wants to see the turn and river as cheaply as possible, and have to be concerned about drawing dead to a boat, as well as having half their outs being dirty (KQ). Group 4 might have wanted a free card, and re-raised to get a read or run a free card. Group 5 should be folding. Which is more probable? Depends on your read on the raiser. I would guess he had Queen based on his preflop play and these observations.

So, for me, I'd play it cautiously here. I bet out and got information from a check/raise. That's my read. In microlimit, that's the big 'trick' play for strong hands. Weak hands bet out and reraise in bluff attempts.

Finally, I usually play 10/20 B&amp;M, and just started playing microlimit online (.5/1) about a month ago. It's a huge adjustment from the normal tight/superaggressive game I'm used to. I'd like to play online more frequently instead of making 1 1/2 hour ride every day to play for long hours. In the B&amp;M game, I'd definitely come over the top because it is easier to put someone on a hand. But in .5/1 online, when someone check/raises it's usually bad news for you. I'm still having a hard time adjusting so I may be really wrong here. I've only got 2200 hands experience. Please explain if I am.

BTW, the original post was supposed to say 'showing some strength'... don't know why I typed sense /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[siccjay]

Thanks for all the reviews. When he checked the turn I was almost certain I was going to get check raised but I didn't wanna give em a free card either because I would have been very very mad if we have drawn out for free. I should have folded but I wanted to see the Queen with my own eyes.

It's funny, when I first got to the table the villian in this hand and another guy were complaining about the table being too loose and that they both liked tight tables better.

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll explain. I 3bet because a lot of micro limit players will go wild here with any Ace for some reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't even think the worst micro player would CR/Cap the flop here.... He obviously has some part of the flop - and it's unlikely he's doing this with a 3, so I'd give him credit for pocket 3's or a rouge Queen.
[ QUOTE ]

When he capped me I figured he had a Queen.

[/ QUOTE ]

True
[ QUOTE ]

He checked the turn so I think, well I'll find out here if he really has a Queen and I bet hoping that he was being over agressive with a flush draw. But no, he check raised me like he was a poker mastermind or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd take the free card. Don't play into his hand...

[quote}
Then I just called him down on the river, knowing I was going to see some Queen with a sissy kicker and I did.

[/ QUOTE ]

A day late and more than a few bets short....

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif